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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It’s not stupid, it’s just thinking outside the box. I don’t think the idea would be workable, but I don’t see anything wrong with exploring alternatives to the current approach.
Also, the writer hasn’t been paid for the article, by the taxpayer or anyone else, I presume. It’s a repost from The Conversation.
(Transphobic post above removed.)
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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The author is a sociology lecturer. Her position, I assume, is paid for by the taxes of NZ citizens. That's what was meant.
As someone mentioned in the comments section, let's be done with it and, at each Olympics, just mint 7 billion gold medals so everyone gets to be a winner. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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It’s stupid
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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The 'Trans' movement will be the death of Women's sports. Hard enough to get girls interested without some guy who 'identifies' as a woman smashing them off the park.
Just make it the XX and XY divisions, simple genetic test determines where you compete. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Go to General Discussion and read some of the threads on Buckley etc and this tome will appear sane. Or the why didn't we draft Bont (when the dogs had a pick before us).
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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The PC Crowd Keeps Destroying Society
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I am Da Man |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | The author is a sociology lecturer. Her position, I assume, is paid for by the taxes of NZ citizens. That's what was meant.
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In that same sense, the taxpayer's money goes to many people, good and bad, competent and incompetent (e.g. postal workers, medicos, policemen). By all means criticize the article (I haven't bothered reading it yet), but talk about taxpayers' money leaves me disconcerted. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| David wrote: | It’s not stupid, it’s just thinking outside the box. I don’t think the idea would be workable, but I don’t see anything wrong with exploring alternatives to the current approach.
Also, the writer hasn’t been paid for the article, by the taxpayer or anyone else, I presume. It’s a repost from The Conversation.
(Transphobic post above removed.) |
How was that transphobic? (I posted a link with pictures of a so called 'female' athlete and said "If that's a woman, I'm a martian") You should join the feminist movement with 'your truth'... you know, the truth you have when it doesn't have to be true. 
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Skids wrote: | | David wrote: | It’s not stupid, it’s just thinking outside the box. I don’t think the idea would be workable, but I don’t see anything wrong with exploring alternatives to the current approach.
Also, the writer hasn’t been paid for the article, by the taxpayer or anyone else, I presume. It’s a repost from The Conversation.
(Transphobic post above removed.) |
How was that transphobic? (I posted a link with pictures of a so called 'female' athlete and said "If that's a woman, I'm a martian") You should join the feminist movement with 'your truth'... you know, the truth you have when it doesn't have to be true. |
If that’s all you said, then that deletion seems unfortunate. “Transphobia” is one of the Soviet-style psychiatric coinages of the modern Left. The late-stage Soviet Union defined dissent as mental illness so it could hound and lock up dissenters. This language is the precursor of the same, and it is more disturbing than many of things classed as “phobic” by our political psychiatrists. Apparently, it means “saying things about the rights or status of [in this case, transsexuals] with which I disagree”.
None of us has the right to urge violence against another unless they are actually about to do violence against us. Rank vitriolic abuse is also best left out of the public square. But all of us still have the right, for now at least, to dispute someone else’s self-description. Remember always Part 3 of George Orwell’s 1984. O’Brien is “helping” Winston Smith with his sense of reality via electrodes :
* * * * *
‘Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.'
He paused for a few moments, as though to allow what he had been saying to sink in.
'Do you remember,' he went on, 'writing in your diary, "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four"?'
'Yes,' said Winston.
O'Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended.
'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?'
'Four.'
'And if the party says that it is not four but five -- then how many?'
'Four.'
The word ended in a gasp of pain. The needle of the dial had shot up to fifty-five. The sweat had sprung out all over Winston's body. The air tore into his lungs and issued again in deep groans which even by clenching his teeth he could not stop. O'Brien watched him, the four fingers still extended. He drew back the lever. This time the pain was only slightly eased.
'How many fingers, Winston?'
'Four.'
The needle went up to sixty.
'How many fingers, Winston?'
'Four! Four! What else can I say? Four!'
The needle must have risen again, but he did not look at it. The heavy, stern face and the four fingers filled his vision. The fingers stood up before his eyes like pillars, enormous, blurry, and seeming to vibrate, but unmistakably four.
'How many fingers, Winston?'
'Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!'
'How many fingers, Winston?'
'Five! Five! Five!'
'No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?'
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Orwell is spinning in his grave at that post.
BTW, Skids, thanks for clarifying: that is a woman, and you are a Martian.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | Orwell is spinning in his grave at that post.
BTW, Skids, thanks for clarifying: that is a woman, and you are a Martian. |
I think he’d be spinning in his grave at the political prostitution of language and reality, and the censorship of opinion because of it. These are the things he most despised throughout his whole career. Read him.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I’ve read a great deal of Orwell’s work, and doubt that he would have been co-opted into the conservative struggle against transgender rights and recognition. He was a decent and deeply intelligent man who was against all forms of totalitarian thinking, including that of the parochial old guard.
Anyway, I’m not sure how Orwell would have run a bulletin board, but just for clarification, this is from the rules page:
| Quote: | | Posts that are abusive, hateful or intolerant of the differences of others will be removed or edited and the posters may be warned. |
Posting a photo of a transgender woman – someone legally and socially accepted as such, and who has gone through the transitional process – and saying “if that’s a woman, I’m a Martian” and evidence that society is turning into a “freak show” is intolerant and likely to be deeply offensive to transgender people, including transgender users of the forums. The post served no other purpose than to mock, belittle and express disgust at people with differences. Perhaps sneering at transgender identities and referring to such people as ‘freaks’ can still be done in the public square without repercussion, but I would argue that such intolerant and hateful sentiments don’t belong here, and I expect that’s a position that would be supported by the rest of the moderation team.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I did not see the original post, of course, which was probably in poor taste, though maybe warranted in the context of gendered sports. I’m also not questioning that you have operated within the moderating rules, though these seem more sympathetic to some kinds of difference than others in practice.
On Orwell, well, you're entitled to your reading. My summation of his theme is the conventional one. I do not know where he would have stood personally on transgender rights, given his distaste for “sandal-wearers, vegetarians and fruit-juice drinkers” and several known disparaging remarks he made about homosexuals. I do know that his writings would decry the systematic use of psychopathological language (phobias) etc about political opinions, especially knowing where this led in the USSR. I think the writing also makes clear that yes Germaine, reality cannot be subordinated to political definition, regardless of the position of the transgender movement.
There is no need to be nasty to transgender people and every reason to help them in many areas. But their participation in women’s sports seems absurd.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Caster Semenya..... google pictures of 'Her' and make your own assessment.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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