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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Fair enough to report it if it was a motivation, though? |
yes. If it was part of the motivation it needs to be reported, if it was incidental or unrelated, report that too.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| How long before we have boom gates at intersections in the city? |
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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: | | How long before we have boom gates at intersections in the city? |
They would have to rename them - boom gates sounds a bit racist.
Maybe Aussie protection gates from nut cases. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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/\ sad but true
Also sad, when my eldest left to catch the train to her city job, to the normal “have a nice day honey” I felt the need to say “and please, no headphones when your walking, be aware of what’s happening around you”.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I have wondered if maybe that section of Flinders Street (from Swanston to, say, William Street) needs to be closed off to vehicles entirely. It's already pretty much impossible to drive down, and full of pedestrians at the best of times. We shouldn't be too reactive to individual acts like this, but at the end of the day no amount of concrete blocks on the footpath is going to stop that Elizabeth/Flinders intersection from being a target.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that mental health problems could be the driving force that lead to a decision to engage in criminal behaviour in the first place and the act he then chose to undertake was inspired by the actions of Islamic extremists he's been readily exposed to because of his Muslim heritage.
It all comes down to the primary motivation for mine.
Was it done in the name of his religion or because he's clearly mentally disturbed.
In this case I believe we can trust the police with all there experience to be able to spot the difference between someone simply motivated by hate and those clearly mentally unstable.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| David wrote: | Thanks P4S – I’ve merged it in now.
Swoop, Lola and Ingmar were at that intersection at about 4:20 (apparently the attack occurred at around 4:45). Just goes to show how much luck can be involved in these things, and how much being in the wrong place at the wrong time can destroy your life in an instant. Of course, that is the precise awareness/fear that terrorists prey upon. I hope this wave will pass soon. |
It certainly can be a fine line between disaster and just another normal day but I guess shit can happen at anytime so we can't let it control us to the point of paranoia.
Thankfully yesterday fate smiled well upon them.
I must admit though on my occasional trip to the city I do find myself wanting to be more alert to the possibility of a terrorist act now and even yesterday bizarrely when walking through Flinders at the corner of Swanston I was imagining what I could do if confronted by some knife wielding fanatic, looking for something to defend myself or another and eyeing off some large umbrellas in the front of the newsagency as potentially my only option.
When I was last standing at the intersection of Elizabeth I remember clearly taking a few steps backwards and placing a metal pole between myself and the oncoming cars.
This act may not have been inspired by religious ideology but it was exactly what Victoria Police have been most worried about occurring in terms of a terrorist act in the heart of the city and given the quick police response it would appear steps have been put in place in preparation for it.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Why does the primary motivation matter to you so much? for sentencing?
I reckon all extremists are mentally disturbed. The fact will always be he cracked the sads for what ever reason and decided to chuck a tantrum that involved other people. If it really was a terrorist attack, i reckon it would have been more calculated and deadly. Same outcome in my mind, if its possible deport him, if its not lock him up and throw away the key, the only question is which jail for him. Im just over this whole bad memories so im going to kill other people thing. until its punished to the max degree possible it will keep happening. we should be able to walk down the street without fear of someone trying to run us over.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| swoop42 wrote: | I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that mental health problems could be the driving force that lead to a decision to engage in criminal behaviour in the first place and the act he then chose to undertake was inspired by the actions of Islamic extremists he's been readily exposed to because of his Muslim heritage.
It all comes down to the primary motivation for mine.
Was it done in the name of his religion or because he's clearly mentally disturbed.
In this case I believe we can trust the police with all there experience to be able to spot the difference between someone simply motivated by hate and those clearly mentally unstable. |
Good post. Very balanced view on the situation.
Although, it makes you wonder whether the second guy was involved. He's filming the attack and carrying three knives, which doesn't seem like a usual thing to do, and this had all the hallmarks of a typical terror attack that has become all too frequent in recent times.
I'm very sceptical of the "mental illness" line they're trotting out to the general public. For all the work that has been done to de-stigmatise those with mental illness, much of what has been said undoes this. Many people also use ice with the recent epidemic that's been taking place, but I haven't seen any of them methodically drive into the Melbourne CBD and run over innocent pedestrians.
From what I can gather, the driver hasn't been formally interviewed, so maybe more will come to light.
| Quote: | ICE-addicted Afghan-Australian Saeed Noori, the man behind yesterday’s Flinders St attack, has made utterances to police about ‘voices, dreams and poor treatment of Muslims’, as CCTV emerges of the horrific incident.
The attacker deliberately mowed down pedestrians in an ‘act of evil’ on the busy Flinders St at the Elizabeth St intersection about 4.40pm yesterday.
He will be formally interviewed later today. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/pedestrians-hit-in-melbourne-cbd/news-story/0793771ddb8f4d79ec660e0d1c4735d5
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Happy to hear this, David. I know several people who also work in the CBD around that area, so my mind crossed to them for a moment, but thankfully everyone I know is safe as well.
I feel for the victims and their families though. It's a miracle no one has been killed, although some victims are described as "critical".
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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[quote="Jezza"]
Happy to hear this, David. I know several people who also work in the CBD around that area, so my mind crossed to them for a moment, but thankfully everyone I know is safe as well.
I feel for the victims and their families though. It's a miracle no one has been killed, although some victims are described as "critical".[/quote]
I think Sadly some Real Die.
Hopefully this guy gets the Death Penalty
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I am Da Man |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Dave, we don't have the death penalty. It was abolished in Victoria in 1975.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Is it still abolished in Victoria in 1975 anymore? |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Jezza wrote: | | Dave, we don't have the death penalty. It was abolished in Victoria in 1975. |
I seem to recall a talk given by a lawer who was advertised as being the lawyer who defended the last person to be given the death penalty. If I were in his shoes, I'm not sure whether I'd want that sort of thing being used to promote me. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Jezza wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that mental health problems could be the driving force that lead to a decision to engage in criminal behaviour in the first place and the act he then chose to undertake was inspired by the actions of Islamic extremists he's been readily exposed to because of his Muslim heritage.
It all comes down to the primary motivation for mine.
Was it done in the name of his religion or because he's clearly mentally disturbed.
In this case I believe we can trust the police with all there experience to be able to spot the difference between someone simply motivated by hate and those clearly mentally unstable. |
Good post. Very balanced view on the situation.
Although, it makes you wonder whether the second guy was involved. He's filming the attack and carrying three knives, which doesn't seem like a usual thing to do, and this had all the hallmarks of a typical terror attack that has become all too frequent in recent times.
I'm very sceptical of the "mental illness" line they're trotting out to the general public. For all the work that has been done to de-stigmatise those with mental illness, much of what has been said undoes this. Many people also use ice with the recent epidemic that's been taking place, but I haven't seen any of them methodically drive into the Melbourne CBD and run over innocent pedestrians.
From what I can gather, the driver hasn't been formally interviewed, so maybe more will come to light.
| Quote: | ICE-addicted Afghan-Australian Saeed Noori, the man behind yesterday’s Flinders St attack, has made utterances to police about ‘voices, dreams and poor treatment of Muslims’, as CCTV emerges of the horrific incident.
The attacker deliberately mowed down pedestrians in an ‘act of evil’ on the busy Flinders St at the Elizabeth St intersection about 4.40pm yesterday.
He will be formally interviewed later today. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/pedestrians-hit-in-melbourne-cbd/news-story/0793771ddb8f4d79ec660e0d1c4735d5 |
But what if his mental illness was the primary factor? Or drug abuse? The thing we need to remember is that no act has one singular motive; by the same token, not all motives carry equal weight. Our desire to not ‘excuse’ crime can sometimes lead us to overreach and neglect significant factors that cause it.
Ultimately, all possible factors should be taken seriously and be part of the discussion on how to stop such events from occurring. You can improve mental health funding and push back against radicalisation and reduce access to weapons and build safer infrastructure. Those who only want to focus on their pet factor, or don’t want, say, mental illness to be considered as a cause because of ‘stigma’ are merely simplifying a complex phenomenon.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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