Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Greenwood goes for surgery

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion
 
Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
glasseyevfx 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:34 pm
Post subject: Greenwood goes for surgeryReply with quote

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2017-12-19/greenwood-delayed-by-knee-complaint

Still think we could do well this year but its looking like a shaky start
Elliot
Fas
Greenwood

bummer

_________________
We shall set our course by the stars and not ships that pass in the night
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:24 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

The bad news is that there have been injuries and surgery.
The good news is it's this time of year and not later in the pre-season
Pendelbury is another one that ought to be on the list despite being "only" a(nother) finger.

_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Woods 

Buckley - turns boys into men


Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

The intensity of this preseason training has been focused on finding out the niggling injuries that various players have said are "OK, I can work through it". The club is testing them and calling "bullshit" and sending them off to get mended, leaving an opening for another player to take their spot. Fair enough, we have the list now to do this. We don't want to start the new H&A season with players that are prone to becoming lame and crippled after a few games. I take my hat off to the new medical man at the Pies.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
woftam Gemini

I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:58 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Woods wrote:
The intensity of this preseason training has been focused on finding out the niggling injuries that various players have said are "OK, I can work through it". The club is testing them and calling "bullshit" and sending them off to get mended, leaving an opening for another player to take their spot. Fair enough, we have the list now to do this. We don't want to start the new H&A season with players that are prone to becoming lame and crippled after a few games. I take my hat off to the new medical man at the Pies.


Wow.
Now that's some fine spin right there.
Both Elliott & Greenwood were told to rest their injuries & they would heal instead of going for surgery by so called medical experts that the club trusted.
Both of those players have now gone down the surgery route 2 months later than they should have & have had their pre seasons ruined.

Whoever the club is employing to suggest treatment for injuries in the off season, i'd suggest their advice may no longer be required.
Both suggestions of rest instead of surgery were proved wrong in the end.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Woods 

Buckley - turns boys into men


Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

woftam wrote:
Woods wrote:
The intensity of this preseason training has been focused on finding out the niggling injuries that various players have said are "OK, I can work through it". The club is testing them and calling "bullshit" and sending them off to get mended, leaving an opening for another player to take their spot. Fair enough, we have the list now to do this. We don't want to start the new H&A season with players that are prone to becoming lame and crippled after a few games. I take my hat off to the new medical man at the Pies.


Wow.
Now that's some fine spin right there.
Both Elliott & Greenwood were told to rest their injuries & they would heal instead of going for surgery by so called medical experts that the club trusted.
Both of those players have now gone down the surgery route 2 months later than they should have & have had their pre seasons ruined.

Whoever the club is employing to suggest treatment for injuries in the off season, i'd suggest their advice may no longer be required.
Both suggestions of rest instead of surgery were proved wrong in the end.


Not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

(you aware that the club doc who advised the players to let their injuries heal with rest got his medical licence suspended. Its different club medical advice that's sending these players off to the knife).
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:25 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Something is afoot with knees at the Holden Centre.

These are the facts as we know them:

First McLarty can't weight bear beacause of his knee. Second Greenwood has his knee operated on. Conicidence?

Strange, very strange.

I blame the knees on Kinesiology. Assist one person through the medium of another.

Collingwoods alternative medical team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUFrKqEwqYs

Then again I could be wrong

_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.


Last edited by watt price tully on Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Craigmac 



Joined: 22 May 2017


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:38 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

The poor management of injuries is not new to our club and add our history of drafting players with injuries i think it is time for the club to do some sort of investigation.

Two players now with delayed starts from 2017 injuries is a poor start for such a crucial year.

Current players like Pendlebury, Wells, Fasolo (past injuries), Reid, Goldsack, Wills, Varoce, Sier, Broomhead, Oxley, Elliott, Langdon, Sharenberg all seem to have been mis-managed through rehab processes for injuries..... then add recent departures like Sinclair and Nathan Brown.....it does not paint a good picture.

Some injuries are unavoidable like kness and ankles but we just seem to manage the recovery so poorly and soft tissue injuries turn in to season ending.

Why do Collingwood make the wrong call on operations?
Why do hamstrings at Collingwood become 5/6 weeks while at other clubs they are 3.
Why are calf injuries season ending?
Why do many of our players have recurring shoulder problems?
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:22 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Craigmac wrote:
The poor management of injuries is not new to our club and add our history of drafting players with injuries i think it is time for the club to do some sort of investigation.

Two players now with delayed starts from 2017 injuries is a poor start for such a crucial year.

Current players like Pendlebury, Wells, Fasolo (past injuries), Reid, Goldsack, Wills, Varoce, Sier, Broomhead, Oxley, Elliott, Langdon, Sharenberg all seem to have been mis-managed through rehab processes for injuries..... then add recent departures like Sinclair and Nathan Brown.....it does not paint a good picture.

Some injuries are unavoidable like kness and ankles but we just seem to manage the recovery so poorly and soft tissue injuries turn in to season ending.

Why do Collingwood make the wrong call on operations?
Why do hamstrings at Collingwood become 5/6 weeks while at other clubs they are 3.
Why are calf injuries season ending?
Why do many of our players have recurring shoulder problems?



Your premise (and others making the same point) that Collingwood is making the wrong call on surgery is not correct.

Ask yourself (selves) the following questions:

1. Do you have all the available medical history on each and every player you've identified?

2. Do you have any of the resuls of medical assesments of each and every player you've identified?

3. Have you assessed & discussed the information on each & every player with the relevant allied health profesionals?

4. Have you assessed & discussed the information on each & every player with the relevant specialists such as surgeons

5. Are you aware of all of the the potential risks associated with surgery?

6. Are you aware of all of the players who've sought medical opinion for their injuries and have succeeded without surgical intervnetion?

7. Apply the above questiions to other clubs too for that matter.

All people are individual and have indivdual concerns and history regarding a particlar medical / surgical outcome. Good decison making is based on processing / evaluating all of the available evidence and applying that to a given medical / surgical scenario.

When you (and all of us) have achieved all of the above then we can make informed comment.

Until then the rest is speculation given we don't know all of the above.

One should always try conservative treatment first before going down the treatment path of surgical interventions (unless there are mitigating circumstances)

Having said that I'm just as frustrated as you are with having injuries and injuries needing surgery too.

_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Craigmac 



Joined: 22 May 2017


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:07 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your thoughts Wally Price Tully.

I don't disagree with you challenging my understanding........that I don't work at the club and I don't have a medical degree.....which is why I stated in the first sentence ' I think its time for the club to do some sort of investigation.

Firstly, lets not forget one of our doctors has had some issues with his medical licence.

Secondly, its not even 2018 and 2 players already have issues with 2017 injuries......Is it just bad luck??? or poor management....... I cannot think of any other clubs with one player getting surgery in December for 2017 season injuries.....maybe of missed the news.....but I know we have 2 now.

All I'm suggesting is the club investigate to give us all confidence that we are doing all we can to minimise the disruption to the team, planning, training and of course winning games........
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:56 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

watt price tully wrote:

Your premise (and others making the same point) that Collingwood is making the wrong call on surgery is not correct.

Ask yourself (selves) the following questions:

1. Do you have all the available medical history on each and every player you've identified?

2. Do you have any of the resuls of medical assesments of each and every player you've identified?

3. Have you assessed & discussed the information on each & every player with the relevant allied health profesionals?

4. Have you assessed & discussed the information on each & every player with the relevant specialists such as surgeons

5. Are you aware of all of the the potential risks associated with surgery?

6. Are you aware of all of the players who've sought medical opinion for their injuries and have succeeded without surgical intervnetion?

7. Apply the above questiions to other clubs too for that matter.

All people are individual and have indivdual concerns and history regarding a particlar medical / surgical outcome. Good decison making is based on processing / evaluating all of the available evidence and applying that to a given medical / surgical scenario.

When you (and all of us) have achieved all of the above then we can make informed comment.

Until then the rest is speculation given we don't know all of the above.

One should always try conservative treatment first before going down the treatment path of surgical interventions (unless there are mitigating circumstances)
...


Poor Nicksters have to subject themselves to 7 questions?
Doth WPT protest too much?
I liked the words "relevant allied health professionals". I suspect it takes an allied health professional to use such a phrase. Wink

Questions 5 & 7 seem the most pertinent to me. In practice, we often have at least some idea regarding many of the other questions. At the risk of encouraging WPT, I can add an 8th:

8. Are players actually following the medical advice they received? e.g. was it medical advice to get drunk and piss in public in the early hours of the morning?

I agree that it's reasonable in general to try the conservative approach first, as surgery comes with risk. The Greenwood case doesn't worry me so much (at this stage) because we haven't really seen suggestions of bungling. Elliott, on the other hand, first injured his ankle last February. The club made noises dismissing it as minor. And, despite playing again since then, he now won't be right before next February. Unless these ankle problems are all unrelated, it would be unreasonable not to ask questions about whether it's been managed properly.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
woftam Gemini

I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:17 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Woods wrote:
woftam wrote:
Woods wrote:
The intensity of this preseason training has been focused on finding out the niggling injuries that various players have said are "OK, I can work through it". The club is testing them and calling "bullshit" and sending them off to get mended, leaving an opening for another player to take their spot. Fair enough, we have the list now to do this. We don't want to start the new H&A season with players that are prone to becoming lame and crippled after a few games. I take my hat off to the new medical man at the Pies.


Wow.
Now that's some fine spin right there.
Both Elliott & Greenwood were told to rest their injuries & they would heal instead of going for surgery by so called medical experts that the club trusted.
Both of those players have now gone down the surgery route 2 months later than they should have & have had their pre seasons ruined.

Whoever the club is employing to suggest treatment for injuries in the off season, i'd suggest their advice may no longer be required.
Both suggestions of rest instead of surgery were proved wrong in the end.


Not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

(you aware that the club doc who advised the players to let their injuries heal with rest got his medical licence suspended. Its different club medical advice that's sending these players off to the knife).


It's the one's not sending our players to the knife that has us in this mess.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:06 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Craigmac wrote:
...
Current players like Pendlebury, Wells, Fasolo (past injuries), Reid, Goldsack, Wills, Varoce, Sier, Broomhead, Oxley, Elliott, Langdon, Sharenberg all seem to have been mis-managed through rehab processes for injuries..... then add recent departures like Sinclair and Nathan Brown.....it does not paint a good picture.

...


Not sure that all of those mentioned belong on that list. e.g. Wells has been old and... err... heavy since the day he arrived.
My thoughts on Elliott are in my previous post. As for Broomhead:

Quote:
...and a left shoulder injury in mid-2015 which plagued him for a year longer than it needed to. "I should have had surgery when I did it," he says.

"When I saw the surgeon and doctors after it happened, they said the strength would come back in a month or so."

It didn't though, and Broomhead laboured with one shoulder only fractionally as strong as the other.
...

"I couldn't tackle. At the start, I just couldn't lift my arm at all. It came back a tiny bit, but of my right [shoulder] it was only 25, 30 per cent. At best it got to 40 per cent."

Eventually he had surgery in 2016. It revealed, and repaired, a torn rotator cuff and detached tendons and removed loose bits of bone. "When [the doctor] opened it and saw that, he said, 'There's a little bit more than I initially thought'."

Broomhead was understandably frustrated. "It would have been nice if they could have worked that out from all the scans 14 months ago.

"I'm not really sure how they didn't work it out. There's not any point getting too angry. It would have been nice to have had it done 12 months early then I'd probably be a year ahead of where I am now, but not much can be done about it now."

He concedes it will probably never get to 100 per cent. "But I can tackle and use it properly now."


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/in-a-magpie-nest-with-tim-brodie-and-rachael-20170622-gwwoec.ht


Pretty damning. But of course the medicos might dispute his version of events.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Craigmac wrote:
Thank you for your thoughts Wally Price Tully.

I don't disagree with you challenging my understanding........that I don't work at the club and I don't have a medical degree.....which is why I stated in the first sentence ' I think its time for the club to do some sort of investigation.

Firstly, lets not forget one of our doctors has had some issues with his medical licence.

Secondly, its not even 2018 and 2 players already have issues with 2017 injuries......Is it just bad luck??? or poor management....... I cannot think of any other clubs with one player getting surgery in December for 2017 season injuries.....maybe of missed the news.....but I know we have 2 now.

All I'm suggesting is the club investigate to give us all confidence that we are doing all we can to minimise the disruption to the team, planning, training and of course winning games........


Carigmac, I'm not sure what the medical registration is about; that may well not be related to his medical expertise. May well be related to other matters.

Cheers.

_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

DP
_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:54 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

K noted in part

I liked the words "relevant allied health professionals". I suspect it takes an allied health professional to use such a phrase. Wink

WPT replied

Nah mate. I acutally work hard for a living; not at meetings and afternoon teas all the time. Wink Wink

I was actually referring to physiotherapists, execise physiologists and the like here but we could always have a family meeting Wink Razz

_________________
"It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain leaks out" Australia's Chief Scientist Alan Finkel to the looney climate change denialist Malcolm Roberts.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group