Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Super Smith's stats.

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Nick's Sports Bar
 
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:08 pm
Post subject: Super Smith's stats.Reply with quote

Highest averages in Tests.

DG Bradman (AUS) 6996 5uns @ 99.94
SPD Smith (AUS) 5796 @ 62.32
AC Voges (AUS) 1485 @ 61.87
RG Pollock (SA) 2256 @ 60.97
GA Headley (WI) 2190 @ 60.83
H Sutcliffe (ENG) 4555 @ 60.73

Smith has 22 centuries and 21 half centuries.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:10 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

From Pies4shaw:

Smith has just become the first batsman ever to make at least 1,0000 runs over four consecutive calendar years at an average of over 60 in each year. His cumulative average over the 4 years from 2014 to 2017 is presently 75.25. His 22 centuries in that period are the most ever by a batsman in a 4-year period. This is heady stuff.

Ricky Ponting still has the crown for most runs in a 4-year period (he's the only batsman ever to get over 5,000). With 3 (realistically, probably only 2) further innings available this calendar year, Smith is a chance to catch Ponting. Before the start of play, he is on 4,816. Ponting's effort was an astonishing 5,077 (at 72.52). He needs 159 more runs this year to catch Hayden's 3rd place and 171 to pass both Hayden's efforts and take second place.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:08 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

After his 239, in Perth, Smith goes above Ponting and Hobbs (both 942) and equal with Hutton (945) in the ICC Test Player Ratings.

Naturally enough, Bradman is way out in front, with 961.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:30 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Have the ICC given any info anywhere about how they come up with those ratings? I'd really want to know basic things like who came up with them, what goes into them, how they justify their formula, etc. before I gave them much credibility. I mean, it's not even clear whether that's supposed to be a linear scale.

In the old days, Deloittes came up with their ranking system, presumably to get publicity for themselves.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

All here, mate. Smile Go to 'About Us' or their FAQs.

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:00 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Will be interesting to see Smith's rating, after this (Boxing Day) Test, especially if he scores well, again, in the second dig.

With an Aussie win highly unlikely, he can bat all day, today.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:39 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Donny wrote:
All here, mate. Smile Go to 'About Us' or their FAQs.

http://www.lgiccrankings.com/ranking/test/batting/


Thanks, Donny... Now I know who/what to make fun of. Wink

If it's not make-believe, they don't seem (at a quick glance) to reveal why not. There's an apparent lack of self-awareness in statements like the following.
Quote:
The value of each player’s performance ... is calculated using an algorithm, a series of calculations (all pre-programmed) based on various circumstances in the match.

All of the calculations are carried out using pre-programmed formulae, using the information published in a Test match scorecard. There is no human intervention in this calculation process, and no subjective assessment is made.


The point is the subjective assessment has already been made when they decide the formulae. What I've just said is not true if they actually test the formulae, e.g. if they can use the algorithm to predict accurately how many runs Smith will score today. If that's the case, then the algorithm really does mean something. My quick look through the FAQ did not spot anything like that, though.

If I've just been blind or too rash though, do enlighten me...
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

A player, say, in Smith's case, a batsman, will score more ratings points by making runs against a highly rated team.

England's attack had, until recently, 2 bowlers in the top 10 (Broad now 15th.), including Anderson, at #1.

If Australia played the Windies, their batsmen would score fewer ratings points for the same number of runs because the Windies highest ranking bowlers are at #20, 21 & 22.

Not sure what you mean about predicting what a batsman will score, K.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:10 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

They are pretending to have precise quantitative info, i.e. concrete numbers, that rank the players --- and presumably not just that but the precise gap between them, e.g. between best and second best.

We all know that the degree of difficulty affects how meritorious a performance is. We also in qualitative terms have a fair idea of some of the factors that determine this degree of difficulty, though even this we could argue endlessly over.

The problem is not just to make sure you take into account all the factors that are important but how you should combine them to get one number. The only way to have any justification for the way you combine them is for them to describe data accurately. The important point is the data it describes should not be the data that you used to come up with your recipe. Hence prediction.

Otherwise, you're giving yourself the illusion of having something meaningful and objective, which in many ways is worse than just having a well-informed opinion, because in the latter case at least you're aware that there is subjectivity and it's not a precise and infallible judgement.

How much you trust the formula is determined by how well it makes predictions. Again, some predictions are easier than others. How much Smith will make today is a harder task than just how much he'll score on average in the next calendar year. The predictions should thus really come with confidence intervals, or margins or error, as they are also called. e.g. in weather reporting, they now do this: today there was an x% chance of rain, we're told (beforehand).
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not with you, re. predictions. This is not what the ratings are about. Predicting anything, in sport, is a near impossibility.

The ratings are simply results of their (ICC) given criteria - with all possible variations - taken into account. ie. Runs and/or wickets scored/taken against a highly rated team will get the player higher points.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:39 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Smithy has 76 and a century in this Test.

He will go to second, outright, in the batting ratings, historically.

_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:50 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

If he stays not out, his average will rise to 63.6
_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:51 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

He isn't far away from reaching 6000 test career runs.
_________________
2010 = PREMIERS Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Donny Aries

Formerly known as MAGFAN8.


Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Location: Toonumbar NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:54 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. 5974.
_________________
Donny.

It's a game. Enjoy it. Very Happy
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:56 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Donny wrote:
Still not with you, re. predictions. This is not what the ratings are about. Predicting anything, in sport, is a near impossibility.

The ratings are simply results of their (ICC) given criteria - with all possible variations - taken into account. ie. Runs and/or wickets scored/taken against a highly rated team will get the player higher points.


The point is that it's subjective --- arbitrary --- how precisely to take the variations into account. Your point about predicting things in sport exposes this arbitrariness. If they made accurate predictions, that would show that there was objectivity in the process.

(Actually, betting companies do make pretty good predictions. It's why it's very hard to beat the odds. Not predicting exact scores, etc., but more general things, such as the line.)

Put another way, you (i.e. your model) have to decide (as just one example) how many more points runs against higher opposition should get. Should Pujara scoring 245 against Bangladesh in Bangladesh (I'm just making up a hypothetical scenario) earn more or fewer points than Smith scoring 100 against England at the MCG? This will affect whether Smith ends up with a higher overall rating than Pujara.

That's the problem.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Nick's Sports Bar All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group