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The key to our success in 2018

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:25 pm
Post subject: The key to our success in 2018Reply with quote

Given that we have drafted primarily midfielders/medium talls, apart from the rookies, it's obvious that the club doesn't consider our KPP deficiencies as much of a worry as most outsiders do.

That suggests that Bucks and the footy department have great faith that big Cox will deliver the goods in front of goal for us. If Cox fires for us up front, changing with Grundy, then this would allow Moore to play more of a genuine swingman role, between defence and attack. This would also enable Pendles, WHE and possibly Stephenson to rotate through the forward line, complementing our smalls of Elliott, Fasolo and either Kirby (if he ever gets fit enough) or Daics.

It's an exciting prospect, but it carries an inherent risk of what to do if Cox proves a failure? Being a glass half full kind of guy, I'm backing the big Yank to deliver the goods and for that to jettison us well inside the top eight. Go Pies!
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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

If Coxy is given some continuity in the 1ís, 40 goals isnít an unrealistic expectation. Iím a fan. He can do it. But weíd need some other contributors as well. Itís well within our ability.
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Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Stay at home forwards are only as good as the effectiveness of their midfield.

I can see exactly why Collingwood have drafted and recruited like they have.
If you don't get first use of the ball and then proceed to use it well, not even two Tom Lynchs will make much difference.

As for Cox, at least he can go in the ruck. He can still possibly make a difference if we are getting beaten around the ground. The fact that he can be played as both a KPF and a ruck, is a huge plus.
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:41 pm
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I reckon give the big yank a decent run at it, including time to make adjustments once they start to work him out and let the small blokes learn how to feed off him.
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dalyc 



Joined: 02 Mar 2005


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:56 pm
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I like Mason and hope he does well.

I'm less worried about his offensive role than I am about his ability to provide some defensive pressure in the forward half. I can see his opponent running off him all day which might make it a very easy escape out of defence for the oppo.

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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:03 pm
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Am positive about Mason as mark and kick man but there are facets of his game that counter the good he can do.

What the better outcome would be a few smaller crummers waiting for splillage

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:04 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Damien wrote:
If Coxy is given some continuity in the 1ís, 40 goals isnít an unrealistic expectation. Iím a fan. He can do it. But weíd need some other contributors as well. Itís well within our ability.


2 good points.

Coxy needs to kick at least 35.
If Jamie, Faz, Darc, Grundy and our 'fleet' can back him up..... the world is their oyster.
Mason is developing nicely. Cool

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BazBoy 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:05 pm
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And our scrum coach Buddha to s give the Elliotís ,WHE and others the tools to swoop on the pill and also lock it in
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Mossi Leo



Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:24 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

You lot are all spot on in the direction we are heading.! Don't forget Reid! He would be in the mix. We just need a bit of luck that Elliot can play a full season, Fas stays fit! Well the bottom line is that we a good run with injuries!!!!!
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Fatui Attata 



Joined: 28 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:55 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a go at best 22...

Langdon Dunn Goldsack

Shaz Moore Howe

Varcoe Wells Pendles

De Goey Reid Sidebottom

Elliott Cox Fasolo

Grundy Adams Treloar

Aish Maynard Crisp WHE

If the following 6 players with the biggest upside hit their peak (or near to) in 2018, we'll make the finals for sure....

De Goey
Moore (CHB)
Cox
Maynard
Aish
Shaz

Provided all the others continue to play at the level they're at (or have previously shown), at our best, top 4 is a good chance.

Strong group belief and unity will take us further than anything else.

Add to that the VFL Pies being top 2 and the onslaught begins.

Lots of upside in our VFL team, considering some of those omitted from the aforementioned 22.

Exciting times Nicksters!!

Go Maggies!

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Geek 



Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Glenroy

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: The key to our success in 2018Reply with quote

RudeBoy wrote:
Given that we have drafted primarily midfielders/medium talls, apart from the rookies, it's obvious that the club doesn't consider our KPP deficiencies as much of a worry as most outsiders do.

...


Nah not so obvious to me Rudey. It could just as easily mean that they don't see the available talls as being capable of addressing the deficiencies.

The Collingwood list strategy clearly involves a play at Lynch next year. The two KPFs then become Lynch and Grundy/Cox with some hybrid 3rd tall such as Murphy or WHE but just as easily one of our "plays tall" forwards in Fas or Elliott. In this strategy, there is no room there for Moore and he will have to go back. The two key backs then become Moore and McLarty. The question then becomes, "are any of the available talls going to be better than McLarty? Better enough to justify pick 6 on them?"

Gotta say that the answer to that is "no". McLarty might only make it passably or he might go a bit better than that but you would want pick 6 to land you a Lever or Rance in order to get that sort of improvement in that position if the rest of this strategy is pulled off. None of this year's talls projects as being of that calibre.

(If memory serves me correctly, McLarty was talked of in the same sorts of tones, if not better, than this year's crop of talls yeah?)

In addition to this, we are looking at Will Kelly as an F/S. He's 194 cm KPD who had started "tracking north" according to Hine back when he was explaining the Murray trade. We've been working with him for years and the club clearly feels he will be worth an F/S slot.

"So do we think that any of the talls on offer are going to be significantly better than Will Kelly? Enough to spend pick 6 on them?" That's the next question.

Now next year's talls might be a different proposition. People are talking them up a bit at the moment. But this year's were always seen as NQR and we may already have players at their level or better, either on the list or in the pipeline.

Now.... what if the Lynch thing falls through? Well now we have to look at how likely the club thinks that will be and whether they think spending pick 6 on an NQR and possibly superfluous tall is a prohibitively expensive insurance policy.

Maybe if Balta/Brander/Clavarino was available at #39 we would have taken one of them. That's a far better price for a fallback option. But pick 6? I'm warming to the idea that as Pendles declines and retires, we will appreciate Stephenson more and more.

P.S. And if Kelly and McLarty turn out to be competent enough talls, then we can get quality smalls down back a lot cheaper to be the weapons. Perhaps this is the fall back position for is Lynch falls through?
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:52 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Moore, Stephenson, Elliot, Faz, WHE is a pretty balanced and well structured forward line.

Moore the tall target. Stephenson is 192 and a forward who marks on the lead and has x-factor. we all know who elliot and Faz are. Elliot and Faz as 3rd and 4th option down there are very dangerous. For many games last year, Moore was out of form and faz was the only other guy down there.

when we had Moore, Elliot, Faz and WHE down there together, we looked pretty good towards the end of the year. Add Stephenson and maybe even Murphy and you have the makings of a successful forward line.

This is not to say that having Grundy/Cox resting up there wont add to the mix and be a good thing. i'm just saying that i don't think the drafting of Stephenson has anything to do with the decision that Cox is going to become anything more than a useful back up ruckman who will take a mark or two and hopefully kick one to 2 goals a game, while doing his best not to be a liability on the counter attack (something he has been for nearly all of his career to date).

i think what a lot of people are not focusing on is the MASSIVe improvement we saw out of Grundy this year in terms of his pack marking ability. Last year was the first time he had showcased that ability. It is Grundy moving forward that excites me a whole lot more than Cox moving forward.

Finally, does anyone envisage a situation where Grundy becomes a ruck rover like the great hawthorn teams used to do with Roughhead? i notice that cox and Grundy have been working on Grundy roving to Cox. i like the idea of setting up with moore, stephenson and elliot up forward, cox winning the tap and then moving forward after the center bounce and grundy playing ruck rver before assuming ruck duties after the initial tap.

given how important center clearances have become, is there a future (even just as a change up) for this strategy?

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neil Sagittarius



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:38 am
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Not sold on Cox as a power forward
Moore is only playing defence in the preseson
Faz WHE and Elliot are good forwards hopefully at least one of Daicos Brown and Kirby step up otherwise its Blair

It is obvious that the club didnot rate any of the forwards this year
I think the AFL will stop Lynch from leaving GC either money or a change in the rules

A year ago this years KPF were rated highly in a years time who knows

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simon tonna 



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Location: carindale

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:24 am
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Finally, does anyone envisage a situation where Grundy becomes a ruck rover like the great hawthorn teams used to do with Roughhead? i notice that cox and Grundy have been working on Grundy roving to Cox. i like the idea of setting up with moore, stephenson and elliot up forward, cox winning the tap and then moving forward after the center bounce and grundy playing ruck rver before assuming ruck duties after the initial tap.

given how important center clearances have become, is there a future (even just as a change up) for this strategy?[/quote]

yes to that. with grundy ruck rover he gives us protection for the more skilled swifter users as well as tackling brutlness which can intimidate the more smaller fleet of foot opposition players.
also he's a decent user of the ball when in hand.

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simon tonna 



Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Location: carindale

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:24 am
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Finally, does anyone envisage a situation where Grundy becomes a ruck rover like the great hawthorn teams used to do with Roughhead? i notice that cox and Grundy have been working on Grundy roving to Cox. i like the idea of setting up with moore, stephenson and elliot up forward, cox winning the tap and then moving forward after the center bounce and grundy playing ruck rver before assuming ruck duties after the initial tap.

given how important center clearances have become, is there a future (even just as a change up) for this strategy?[/quote]

yes to that. with grundy ruck rover he gives us protection for the more skilled swifter users as well as tackling brutlness which can intimidate the more smaller fleet of foot opposition players.
also he's a decent user of the ball when in hand.

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