Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Dehumanisation, cruelty and morality

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern
 
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:43 pm
Post subject: Dehumanisation, cruelty and moralityReply with quote

I found this a really interesting read (kind of related to that article I posted earlier today in the ISIS thread). It’s an analysis of where human cruelty comes from, with, perhaps, some surprising conclusions.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/27/the-root-of-all-cruelty

Quote:
In many instances, violence is neither a cold-blooded solution to a problem nor a failure of inhibition; most of all, it doesn’t entail a blindness to moral considerations. On the contrary, morality is often a motivating force: “People are impelled to violence when they feel that to regulate certain social relationships, imposing suffering or death is necessary, natural, legitimate, desirable, condoned, admired, and ethically gratifying.” Obvious examples include suicide bombings, honor killings, and the torture of prisoners during war, but Fiske and Rai extend the list to gang fights and violence toward intimate partners. For Fiske and Rai, actions like these often reflect the desire to do the right thing, to exact just vengeance, or to teach someone a lesson. There’s a profound continuity between such acts and the punishments that—in the name of requital, deterrence, or discipline—the criminal-justice system lawfully imposes.

_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:45 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

It started off well and i agreed, then it went heavier and I lost concentration about half way through.

I may go back to it, it was interesting.

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:24 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

The first 2 things are the social goals of capitalism. To a proper conservative, they are net public goods.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

Speaketh the lawer

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:27 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I read it, but I didn't think it illuminated much. Its argument seems to be that :

1. Some violence comes from denying the subjectivity of the victim.
2. Some violence comes from understanding how the subjectivity of the victim may threaten me (which then leads me to deny their right to do so).
3. Those who commit violent acts often convince themselves that they are acting for the "good" (Himmler really seems to have believed the world would one day thank him for ridding the world of Jews).

I honestly didn't think this takes us much beyond what we already knew. I think violence is both inevitable, and arguably essential, to human nature and society. After all, the state itself is constituted, at bottom, by the right to use physical force. The interesting question is not why some people act violently : it is what rules regulate violence so that is only deployed when large essential principles are in play: reciprocity, proportionality, predictability, individual liberty etc. the other interesting question is how we build and sustain conscience in a mass of humanity. When the wrong people are given power, unjust violence follows as pus follows gangrene. That is why the wrong people - who often dress themselves in high-minded humanitarian camouflage - must not be allowed to triumph.

If there is one cause of everyday violence, it is the belief thay my subjectivity is sovereign in the world and it has the right to rule yours. This has become more or less the default setting in our atomized modern world, where the crude certainties of feeling have dethroned reason and compromise.

_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:22 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Sapolsky's caveat that the same behaviours often have (apparently) different causes, and different behaviours often have (apparently) identical causes, should probably preface these discussions.

It's not hard to imagine both humanisation and dehumanisation causing the same outcome. Then again, it's not hard to imagine both humanisation and dehumanisation causing different outcomes. Or, that both terms are unhelpful in this context. Or, that both terms mean pretty much the same thing depending on how they're used. And so on.

Such is where we're at.

_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Page 1 of 1   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group