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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Losing traditional tech schools was a damn shame. Even us normal high school kids did some subjects at the local tech. Now so many kids with out a trade dont know which way to undo a bolt. I admit I havent been impressed with what Ive seen with uni now 1 kid has finished, and the other still there, but the eldest Is on nearly 70k after just 1 year of working & She wouldnt get that without uni.
How did this evolve from police killing though?!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Why now? How many kids do you have? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | You dont want the trash getting above themselves, wpt. If they learn to read, they might read dangerous things. |
Leaning together / Headpiece filled with straw, alas....
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| watt price tully wrote: |
However the plumber, sparky and builder .... if they studied say legal studies they might be able to assist other workers in the area about their rights as workers to work in safe environments. They could assist their colleagues say from workplace injury and say death that is far too high in the building industry.... |
Two things - firstly, it is is significant and telling that you couch the education as only equipping them to see whats wrong, not whats right or acceptable ; and secondly, I can tell you from many years with experienced trade professionals that they are just as capable of detecting unsafe situations as an Arts graduate. If you told them they needed an Arts degree to do that, theyd laugh at you.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Now that Ive gotten around to splitting this discussion into its own thread, I have to say its one of the most ridiculous conversations Ive ever seen on Nicks and I would know! Surely we can agree that technical skills and critical thinking are both important. No point having a nation of plumbers and engineers if nobodys ever studied James Joyce or mediaeval history. I mean, whats the point, really? Is our cultural fate just to be a bunch of drones, keeping the economy running so that the next lot can work themselves into the ground while our libraries and academic faculties crumble? If so, please get me the first ticket out of here.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
However the plumber, sparky and builder .... if they studied say legal studies they might be able to assist other workers in the area about their rights as workers to work in safe environments. They could assist their colleagues say from workplace injury and say death that is far too high in the building industry.... |
Two things - firstly, it is is significant and telling that you couch the education as only equipping them to see whats wrong, not whats right or acceptable ; and secondly, I can tell you from many years with experienced trade professionals that they are just as capable of detecting unsafe situations as an Arts graduate. If you told them they needed an Arts degree to do that, theyd laugh at you. |
Really? You deduce this? I think you need to go back to Uni. Either that or ur arguing for the sake of arguing. Now Ill get back to applied psychiatry while you speculate on amateur psychology.
(iPhone - havin issues)
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Yes, thats the problem, Soretooth. I agree with David that the subjects are vital - after all, how much time do we spend on here arguing about mathematics or technical matters compared to sociocultural ones ? Its that these precious subjects can be, and have been, politicised and widely debased since they were captured by one side of politics. What should be a precious education in how to think in words has become an indoctrination. What should be a life- and mind-enriching experience of beauty, culture and the human condition is too often made factious and barren through grim-jawed ideological conformity.
I would demand that we apply the same diversity and independence requirements to Arts faculties that we apply to the BBC. These subjects are that important.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Let me add that things like feminism, postcolonialism, marxism etc.. have made a huge contribution to academia.
It's just that they seem to have evolved from theories to a set of required beliefs.
If everyone is required to believe the same thing and those beliefs aren't allowed to be questioned then universities are nothing more than madrassas. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Feminism, post colonialism and Marxism are important, but I dont know that they have made a huge contribution, if that implies something positive. They are the backbone of identity politics, which in turn has denuded Arts faculties of the idea of objective merit. When George Eliot (a staunch Liberal, in her day, and probably the most intelligent and humane and elegant writer in English of all time) is given much the same weight as (say) Benjamin Zephaniah, I think academia has registered a negative contribution.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Bruce Gonsalves 
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | You dont want the trash getting above themselves, wpt. If they learn to read, they might read dangerous things. |
I think you might be one of those people when engaging a plumber or the like to do some repairs, you hide in a bedroom as you're intimidated by their presence. I've seen them, strange people indeed. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Bruce Gonsalves wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | You dont want the trash getting above themselves, wpt. If they learn to read, they might read dangerous things. |
I think you might be one of those people when engaging a plumber or the like to do some repairs, you hide in a bedroom as you're intimidated by their presence. I've seen them, strange people indeed. |
Que?
You did see the irony in P4S comment?
Perhaps I missed yours too.
I'm always caught between letting them get on with the job, not talking too much (time per visit etc), always offering a cup of tea, coffee or water.
I like to watch so I can try to do what they do should the problem recurr & see what tools they use.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then
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| David wrote: | | Is our cultural fate just to be a bunch of drones, keeping the economy running so that the next lot can work themselves into the ground while our libraries and academic faculties crumble? If so, please get me the first ticket out of here. |
After me you can be first.
Be warned though, the tickets are frightfully expensive.........
MM
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Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| I've worked in academia teaching politics for twenty years at 4 different unis including 17 years at Melbourne. In that time I've come across less than a handful of Marxists and about the same number of true socialists. The vast majority have been moderate to centre-left in their own politics. Progressive yes, but far from revolutionary. For the most part they also don't give a crap about the politics of their students provided they turn a critical eye to their studies and the ideological framework, theories and events examined. That being said, their is no tolerance for racism, sexism or homophobia, and neither should there be. The idea that arts faculties in this country are bastion of Marxism or ideological conformism is laughable given the diversity of thought and beliefs amongst staff. Marxism is barely even taught in a meaningful way anymore with little attention given to political economy or political sociology. If you want to talk about group think and conformity I'd suggest you take a look at commerce faculties and the teaching of business and economics. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Universities nowdays are little more than glorified tech schools, turning over qualifications .
I'm glad i never went and had people trying to tell me how to think, it wouldnhave eb ded well.
People who need to go to uni at 18 to learn how to think are a worry. People with brains had already figured that out. |
^ Unfair. If you need a house wired, a sink plumbed, or a staircase made, tech schools probably teach more useful things than an Arts degree. |
However if the plumber, sparky and builder spoke another langauge they could tap into a wider market.
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and you need an Arts degree for that?
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Further, if they studied say legal studies they might be able to assist other workers in the area about their rights as workers to work in safe environments. They could assist their colleagues say from workplace injury and say death that is far too high in the building industry....A trade is so much more useful with an Arts degree rather than instead of. |
Crock of shite. A health and Safety rep can be trained in a week, not 4 years. and does exactly that.
Uni is a glorified tech college, you get X degree in order to get X job.
Do you get better quality Nurses now that it's a 4 year degree rather than being hospital trained? Doubtful considering they still need to do 12 months on the job as a grad to see if they can actually do the work.
Do you tell your eldest daughter how much better she'd be at her job if she had an arts degree?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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