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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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It's an interesting world we live in when on one hand people talk about legalising illicit drugs while on the other hand people are lobbying to make codeine based pain killers prescription only due to apparent misuse and cigarettes are taxed up the wazoo to discourage use and smokers treated like lepers.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think whats happening, basically, is that all recreational drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are starting to be treated somewhat similarly, rather than like chalk and cheese (as has been the case for the better part of the last century). In many ways, thats perfectly sensible: all drugs carry risks, but the old method of letting the free market take care of the socially acceptable ones and imposing draconian punishments on those who come into contact with others hasnt worked. We shouldnt treat all drugs the same, but we should where possible pursue harm minimisation policies across the board even if that paradoxically seems like were moving in opposite directions.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | I think whats happening, basically, is that all recreational drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are starting to be treated somewhat similarly, rather than like chalk and cheese (as has been the case for the better part of the last century). In many ways, thats perfectly sensible: all drugs carry risks, but the old method of letting the free market take care of the socially acceptable ones and imposing draconian punishments on those who come into contact with others hasnt worked. We shouldnt treat all drugs the same, but we should where possible pursue harm minimisation policies across the board even if that paradoxically seems like were moving in opposite directions. |
I don't think that recreational drugs are really comparable to the classic mind-altering drugs. Alcohol and tobacco certainly cause harm, lots of it, but they are not instrumentally an escape from reality, or, used normally, barriers to ordinary communication. Cannabis, cocaine, heroin necessarily and purposively entail obviate the sense of reality and function. The others are sensory pleasures which can (like sugar) be misused to great harm. There is a category difference.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | David wrote: | | I think whats happening, basically, is that all recreational drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are starting to be treated somewhat similarly, rather than like chalk and cheese (as has been the case for the better part of the last century). In many ways, thats perfectly sensible: all drugs carry risks, but the old method of letting the free market take care of the socially acceptable ones and imposing draconian punishments on those who come into contact with others hasnt worked. We shouldnt treat all drugs the same, but we should where possible pursue harm minimisation policies across the board even if that paradoxically seems like were moving in opposite directions. |
I don't think that recreational drugs are really comparable to the classic mind-altering drugs. Alcohol and tobacco certainly cause harm, lots of it, but they are not instrumentally an escape from reality, or, used normally, barriers to ordinary communication. Cannabis, cocaine, heroin necessarily and purposively entail obviate the sense of reality and function. The others are sensory pleasures which can (like sugar) be misused to great harm. There is a category difference. |
I had a bloke in the ED 3 days ago who was 0.48 blood alcohol level. He thought that One Nation was a fine orgainzation with wonderful values - was he divorced from reality. He made more sober judgements the next day
Marijuana was great for sex I recall - last had some 25-30 years ago. Hightened pleasure & that was both real & functional. Cocaine was even better although I only had that 2-3 times in London & that was in 1982. I wouldnt confuse heitghtened senses and pleasure with obviating reality.
LSD, Psilocybin are defintiely in a different ball park as is heroin & I'd be inclined to agree to some extent.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | David wrote: | | I think whats happening, basically, is that all recreational drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are starting to be treated somewhat similarly, rather than like chalk and cheese (as has been the case for the better part of the last century). In many ways, thats perfectly sensible: all drugs carry risks, but the old method of letting the free market take care of the socially acceptable ones and imposing draconian punishments on those who come into contact with others hasnt worked. We shouldnt treat all drugs the same, but we should where possible pursue harm minimisation policies across the board even if that paradoxically seems like were moving in opposite directions. |
I don't think that recreational drugs are really comparable to the classic mind-altering drugs. Alcohol and tobacco certainly cause harm, lots of it, but they are not instrumentally an escape from reality, or, used normally, barriers to ordinary communication. Cannabis, cocaine, heroin necessarily and purposively entail obviate the sense of reality and function. The others are sensory pleasures which can (like sugar) be misused to great harm. There is a category difference. |
I had a bloke in the ED 3 days ago who was 0.48 blood alcohol level. He thought that One Nation was a fine orgainzation with wonderful values - was he divorced from reality. He made more sober judgements the next day
Marijuana was great for sex I recall - last had some 25-30 years ago. Hightened pleasure & that was both real & functional. Cocaine was even better although I only had that 2-3 times in London & that was in 1982. I wouldnt confuse heitghtened senses and pleasure with obviating reality.
LSD, Psilocybin are defintiely in a different ball park as is heroin & I'd be inclined to agree to some extent. |
Ive been around lots of people who have used a normal amount of marijuana and those who have used a normal amount of alcohol. You can still have a sensible, reality-based conversation with the latter, but not with the former. I agree that dope can make you feel good, in sex or otherwise, but I dont think that is the point.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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The facts are the World has spent trillions of dollars trying to prevent the use and manufacturing of illicit drugs. This has been a totally waste of time and money as the demand hasn't decreased, it's increased.
Unless you have been involved in the illicit drug scene (using and observing) and I am not talking dope, you simply have no idea. The Heroin drug addict (it's an illness) has to get on, they don't care how they get the money to buy the drugs as all they want is their fix. My brother sold my $1000 guitar for $50 to score. One time he sold my Dad's fridge. One of his girlfriends prostituted herself with his full knowledge so they can score, she tragically died of a drug overdose. I remember after she died I had the police executing a warrant for her arrest. Banging on the door and ready to bash it down and when I answered the door, they set for the charge and said who they were looking for and I calmly said she was Dead. My perception at the time was the 4 officers were pissed off that they couldn't play commando.
The rhetoric in Australia hasn't changed in my lifetime and it never will. It's about votes and the Vic State Governments move has the LNP opposition up in arms because it suits their agenda. Amazingly former LNP Premier Jeff is right behind the Andrews move and I have no doubt the Andrews Government is trying to grab votes from the Greens. In saying that the policy isn't a bad thing. All we hear from the LNP and the right wing is jail, jail and jail as that will solve all the problems. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Alcohol ... [is] not instrumentally an escape from reality, or, used normally, [a barrier] to ordinary communication. |
Crikey I'm guessing you haven't had a night out on King Street recently? 
Escaping from reality is pretty much the only reason most of us drink!
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Alcohol ... [is] not instrumentally an escape from reality, or, used normally, [a barrier] to ordinary communication. |
Crikey I'm guessing you haven't had a night out on King Street recently?
Escaping from reality is pretty much the only reason most of us drink! |
Yeah, I was waiting for that.... My defence is that nothing about King St is normal !! If alcohol was not already legal and so deeply rooted in our society, I would think twice about legalizing it, and I do occasionally wonder about rationing it, as an alternative to the evident impossibility of outright prohibition.
But most people use it without being mentally disordered a la the mind-altering drugs.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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