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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Mossi wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | masoncox wrote: | | think positive wrote: | Gees that’s a great quote Rudey! Love it!
As for storm, don’t follow rugby at all, but gees they always seem to be up there. Is that in any way due to their “Sydney swan” status? Ie did they get help to make it in a non rugby state?
I have said long and loud I wish Pendles would be set free to win the next 5 Brownlows. |
As far as I know Storm don't get any more help than any other NRL club. Seems to be more movement of players than the AFL and Storm has lost a number of great players to other clubs but also to rugby union. The greater issue is why do clubs like Storm and Hawthorn have such long lasting success? It can't be just luck. |
It's called talent and when you lose your talented players you lose your good culture and your winning culture. Astute clubs like Storm and Hawthorn know where to get their talent from despite the restrictions of the draft and hence can stay near the top. We on the other hand can only blame ourselves for replacing premiership players like Daisy and Heater with over the hill hacks like Lynch, Russell and Young, or unfulfilled talent such as Kennedy, Broomhead and Ramsay and have paid the price of a slow descent down the ladder. |
BucksIsFutureCoach you have a point there but I don't know if talent is the complete word. Take Dane Swan talented player but when he was down on form through the 2014-15 season it had its effect on the side. Still he was able to put a few games toghethor and did he make a difference! He just lifted the team! Daisy had speed and x factor when he played with us, a super talent but without that speed has been half the player at the Scum. To create culture you need talented players in form that will do special things and are reliable week after week. When I think of the Hawks you think of Rioli...... Tell me a player that would'nt want to play alongside Rioli or Hodge or Mitchell. Hopefully our leaders in Grundy, Howe, Elliot, Trelore, Sidey and Pendles set the scene in 2018. |
As a player I would love to be playing along side all the players you mention (add Adams to your list). After that I'm scratching my head who we have. That's the problem until players like Moore, De Goey, Scharenberg, Langdon, WHE and Maynard prove themselves. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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Daisy was a wonderful player in 2010 but Malthouse's policy of allowing his 'special boys' to do whatever they like was a strong factor in the end of his career.
Injured in the 11 season but determined to ignore club medical advice and go surfing with his injury.
He was never the same again. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| droversdog65 wrote: | Daisy was a wonderful player in 2010 but Malthouse's policy of allowing his 'special boys' to do whatever they like was a strong factor in the end of his career.
Injured in the 11 season but determined to ignore club medical advice and go surfing with his injury.
He was never the same again. |
Is there evidence for all parts of this often-told story, i.e. i) he went surfing, ii) it was against medical advice, iii) it significantly harmed his chances of full recovery from the ankle injury? |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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Is there evidence the other way?
Fact 1. Mick let his pets do whatever they wanted off field.
Fact 2. Daisy had an ankle issue.
Fact 3. Daisy didn't have it treated when he should have.
Whistling in the dark doesn't change the actual recklessness. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | masoncox wrote: | | think positive wrote: | Gees that’s a great quote Rudey! Love it!
As for storm, don’t follow rugby at all, but gees they always seem to be up there. Is that in any way due to their “Sydney swan” status? Ie did they get help to make it in a non rugby state?
I have said long and loud I wish Pendles would be set free to win the next 5 Brownlows. |
As far as I know Storm don't get any more help than any other NRL club. Seems to be more movement of players than the AFL and Storm has lost a number of great players to other clubs but also to rugby union. The greater issue is why do clubs like Storm and Hawthorn have such long lasting success? It can't be just luck. |
It's called talent and when you lose your talented players you lose your good culture and your winning culture. Astute clubs like Storm and Hawthorn know where to get their talent from despite the restrictions of the draft and hence can stay near the top. We on the other hand can only blame ourselves for replacing premiership players like Daisy and Heater with over the hill hacks like Lynch, Russell and Young, or unfulfilled talent such as Kennedy, Broomhead and Ramsay and have paid the price of a slow descent down the ladder. |
That list of "replacements" is surely intentionally disingenuous 
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Well done boys! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| K wrote: | | droversdog65 wrote: | Daisy was a wonderful player in 2010 but Malthouse's policy of allowing his 'special boys' to do whatever they like was a strong factor in the end of his career.
Injured in the 11 season but determined to ignore club medical advice and go surfing with his injury.
He was never the same again. |
Is there evidence for all parts of this often-told story, i.e. i) he went surfing, ii) it was against medical advice, iii) it significantly harmed his chances of full recovery from the ankle injury? |
| droversdog65 wrote: | Is there evidence the other way?
Fact 1. Mick let his pets do whatever they wanted off field.
Fact 2. Daisy had an ankle issue.
Fact 3. Daisy didn't have it treated when he should have.
Whistling in the dark doesn't change the actual recklessness. |
No, I don't know of any evidence for or against the main claim; that's why I raised the question. I have no stake in the answer. I was merely curious whether anyone knows what's fact and what's just strong rumour.
1-3 above are safe enough statements. (Note, though, that the first injury was in 2012, not 2011. Daisy's 2011 "sin" was to get himself suspended at a particularly inconvenient time.) 3 comes with the benefit of hindsight; the question is what the medical advice was. It's pretty common for people to be given more than one option, and for conservative rehab to be tried before a major operation.
What is true is that Daisy did not immediately have surgery at the end of the 2012 season in which he was injured, but instead had it in late November that year. It's also true that he surfed in October. (It's also true that he surfed in May 2013, before his further surgery that same month.)
It's possible that he chose not to have surgery in October because he did not want to have to cancel his planned holiday then, but presumably only he would know if that's the case, unless he went around telling everybody. If I were in his shoes, I (hope I) would not let a holiday influence the timing of surgery, but the delay on its own would probably have short-term consequences, not long-term ones.
Surfing, on the other hand, seems like something that could aggravate an ankle injury. Who knows whether the medicos advised him not to surf? It's possible it never occurred to them or him to discuss this, if they didn't know he was a surfer. If I were in his shoes, I'm pretty sure I would not have gone surfing, even if the medicos said it should be okay, but that's just me. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Who gives a shit anyway. It's ancient history guys. Time to move on. |
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magpieazza
magpieazza
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Griffith N.S.W
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Heres a quote from Todd Elton, a delisted tall from Richmond, ( who could be worthy of a second chance...pick 26 in 2011) along with a part of the article from the AFL site today.
Theres some interesting evidence here, that suggests that by letting people be individuals they can flourish as a person and player while still conforming to club rules.
MM may have been onto something after all by letting players have a bit of freedom off field.
It was Richmond's investment in the mental side of the game this year, however, that benefited the 197cm forward most as he attacked the season with renewed confidence in his ability.
"The best thing we had was that everyone could come out and be themselves," he said.
"So there was no judgement if you came out and you were a bit different. Everyone came out of their shells and everybody believed in each other.
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Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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| magpieazza wrote: | Heres a quote from Todd Elton, a delisted tall from Richmond, ( who could be worthy of a second chance...pick 26 in 2011) along with a part of the article from the AFL site today.
Theres some interesting evidence here, that suggests that by letting people be individuals they can flourish as a person and player while still conforming to club rules.
MM may have been onto something after all by letting players have a bit of freedom off field.
It was Richmond's investment in the mental side of the game this year, however, that benefited the 197cm forward most as he attacked the season with renewed confidence in his ability.
"The best thing we had was that everyone could come out and be themselves," he said.
"So there was no judgement if you came out and you were a bit different. Everyone came out of their shells and everybody believed in each other. |
Allowing players to be themselves is one thing . .
However . . .
Allowing a cabal of party boys and would be roughs to carouse to their hearts content and the club's detriment is not . . . .
Neither is casting one set of rules for favourites and another set for the rest.
Yeah / Nah |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| droversdog65 wrote: | | magpieazza wrote: | Heres a quote from Todd Elton, a delisted tall from Richmond, ( who could be worthy of a second chance...pick 26 in 2011) along with a part of the article from the AFL site today.
Theres some interesting evidence here, that suggests that by letting people be individuals they can flourish as a person and player while still conforming to club rules.
MM may have been onto something after all by letting players have a bit of freedom off field.
It was Richmond's investment in the mental side of the game this year, however, that benefited the 197cm forward most as he attacked the season with renewed confidence in his ability.
"The best thing we had was that everyone could come out and be themselves," he said.
"So there was no judgement if you came out and you were a bit different. Everyone came out of their shells and everybody believed in each other. |
Allowing players to be themselves is one thing . .
However . . .
Allowing a cabal of party boys and would be roughs to carouse to their hearts content and the club's detriment is not . . . .
Neither is casting one set of rules for favourites and another set for the rest.
Yeah / Nah |
Poor old Mick Malthouse.
He was hopeless. Only got Collingwood to four grand finals.
Let the revionists keep repeating the same old tired lines about the lack of discipline. Yet Uncle Buck scoreboard is looking pretty rank in comparison. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| masoncox wrote: | | droversdog65 wrote: | | magpieazza wrote: | Heres a quote from Todd Elton, a delisted tall from Richmond, ( who could be worthy of a second chance...pick 26 in 2011) along with a part of the article from the AFL site today.
Theres some interesting evidence here, that suggests that by letting people be individuals they can flourish as a person and player while still conforming to club rules.
MM may have been onto something after all by letting players have a bit of freedom off field.
It was Richmond's investment in the mental side of the game this year, however, that benefited the 197cm forward most as he attacked the season with renewed confidence in his ability.
"The best thing we had was that everyone could come out and be themselves," he said.
"So there was no judgement if you came out and you were a bit different. Everyone came out of their shells and everybody believed in each other. |
Allowing players to be themselves is one thing . .
However . . .
Allowing a cabal of party boys and would be roughs to carouse to their hearts content and the club's detriment is not . . . .
Neither is casting one set of rules for favourites and another set for the rest.
Yeah / Nah |
Poor old Mick Malthouse.
He was hopeless. Only got Collingwood to four grand finals.
Let the revionists keep repeating the same old tired lines about the lack of discipline. Yet Uncle Buck scoreboard is looking pretty rank in comparison. |
When Buckley learns that at age 45 he can no longer take to the AFL field and show everyone how it's done and that he therefore needs players out on the field who are every bit as good as he once was on an AFL field, at that point the penny will drop and Buckley will become the best coach in the AFL (would also help if he had a decent list manager who can bring good players to the club - hopefully Guy is that person). |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Ah. I can't decide. You choose. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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| masoncox wrote: | | droversdog65 wrote: | | magpieazza wrote: | Heres a quote from Todd Elton, a delisted tall from Richmond, ( who could be worthy of a second chance...pick 26 in 2011) along with a part of the article from the AFL site today.
Theres some interesting evidence here, that suggests that by letting people be individuals they can flourish as a person and player while still conforming to club rules.
MM may have been onto something after all by letting players have a bit of freedom off field.
It was Richmond's investment in the mental side of the game this year, however, that benefited the 197cm forward most as he attacked the season with renewed confidence in his ability.
"The best thing we had was that everyone could come out and be themselves," he said.
"So there was no judgement if you came out and you were a bit different. Everyone came out of their shells and everybody believed in each other. |
Allowing players to be themselves is one thing . .
However . . .
Allowing a cabal of party boys and would be roughs to carouse to their hearts content and the club's detriment is not . . . .
Neither is casting one set of rules for favourites and another set for the rest.
Yeah / Nah |
Poor old Mick Malthouse.
He was hopeless. Only got Collingwood to four grand finals.
Let the revionists keep repeating the same old tired lines about the lack of discipline. Yet Uncle Buck scoreboard is looking pretty rank in comparison. |
Is there any possible thread you don't harp on with your pathological hatred of Bucks?
FFS you are boring as batshit! |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote: | | Good thread Rudeboy and yes I agree. We may even have a young KPP with our number 6 pick at draft and I have heard pretty good things of Sam McLarty. Throw in Tom Lynch and things will be looking rosy. |
I love your blind optimism but what is your definition of rosy? To me things will be rosy when we have a team that is a serious flag contender, not just for one flash in the pan year, but for multiple years.
I may also be blind, but I haven't seen many signs to indicate that we are on an upward curve yet. The Texan can ruck, but the jury is still out on whether he and Grundy can co-exist. Sadly, Reid looks just about done. Pendlebury didn't seem fit when he was playing last season. It appeared to me that he was caught with the ball more times last season than he was in the rest of his career. Hopefully that was injury and not decline. Treloar has to learn to defend as hard as he attacks, which may occur if he has a preseason and remains injury free. We don't have much pace in defence so hopefully the Sydney rookie can change that. We don't have a quick small forward on the list. We have small, but not quick. We have midfielders with poor disposal.
Your footnote refers to us playing finals in 2018. If we scrape into the 8 then we can say that we have improved enough to be an average team. That's a start and may even be taken as a sign that Buckley can build a team.
But, being a realist I won't go on about this any more and deflate everyone else's positivity. This is the time of year when people forget about what happened in the past, when every draftee is going to be a star, when the existing players are going to train the house down and improve out of sight, when the coach is going to rectify his deficiencies and when we are bound to improve enough to be a real threat. |
The jury was out on whether Grundy and Cox could play together until the Melb. game which was conclusive proof they can.
All your other points are insignificant when we consider how much we closed the gap against the best teams last year, and were highly competitive. And as many have already stated, we could have made the 8 had we not blown our chances late in a few games.
There is no team that we should fear.
Rich and WB have proven how even the competition is and while I'm not suggesting a flag is likely top 8 is definitely achievable.
So yes there is far more to optimistic about than pessimistic. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Winning doesn't create a great culture, leadership does. Winning reinforces it. |
The strongest culture is one which grows from below, not one imposed from above. The character of our players, more than anything else, will shape the culture of our team. |
yes but its also true that a fish rots from the head down.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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