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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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We are men, though, WPT. What can we do to make the behaviour of men like Weinstein less prevalent?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Putting a few of them in prison would be a fair start. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Certainly! Though unfortunately he seems pretty resistant to prosecution.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Like the other Hollyweird scumbags he'll be protected and if it looks like the net is closing in he'll just take off Polanksi style. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | Men, wealth and the abuse of power: doesn't have to be capitalism.
The issue is mens' attitude to women. It's men who have to change. This is an issue about power.
Rape is about power & Weinstein more than proves the point.
This too is reflected in domestic violence through the murder of women (and) children
Men need to change. |
Yep. Totally agree
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | The fact that he had so much power and lack of accountability is a direct product of capitalism, yes, and the way in which the American film industry is organised. Savile and Harris are different as their crimes were only peripherally related to their roles in the respective organisations/arenas you mention. Weinstein's were inseparable from his role as producer, as someone who could make or break careers. This is fundamentally different to if he'd, say, had a habit of groping women in bars or on the train or had a history of spousal abuse. This was entirely part of the business model actresses and other employees were expected to submit to his abuse, and they lost opportunities if they did not. |
Might be endemic to Hollywood and the unique "currency" of that industry. The phrase "casting couch" has, after all, existed since the 20s. But it's clearly not specific, or especial to that vast abstraction "capitalism", and it's unrelated to a "business model", as that term is normally used (ie how you set up your business to make profit). It's just someone with power taking advantage of someone with less, which happens in all forms of economic organisation (but is against the law in most capitalist societies).
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Two more flags before I die! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| David wrote: | | We are men, though, WPT. What can we do to make the behaviour of men like Weinstein less prevalent? |
While I certainly don't condone the actions of Weinstein it's been an open secret in Hollywood for a long long time, hell I even mentioned him in a post back in December last year concerning the casting couch of Hollywood.
While unwanted and inappropriate sexual advances shouldn't be tolerated what of the other open secret around Weinstein of actresses who have allegedly used his proclivities to their benefit.
Google Harvey Weinstein girls and you'll see some of the actresses involved in these allegations.
While I don't doubt many of the allegations against Weinstein are truthful I'm also not so naive to believe some women weren't seduced by his money and power and decided on actions to help achieve that for themselves.
Hell take a look at the glamourous wife of Weinstein (24 years his junior) as proof enough of this.
While I'm happy for these allegations to finally be raised in the public eye I do find it somewhat opportunistic and shallow that some wealthy Hollywood figures are jumping on board the vilification train of Weinstein are only doing it now when they were in a position to do so long ago.
Of course that is typical of Hollywood where self interest often rules.
I find it especially hypocritical of Paltrow (an alleged Weinstein girl) who was at pains to thank him during her Oscar winning speech.
Why so silent till now Gywneth?
You have the power and money now to help protect young actresses starting out and you had it years ago.
If you want an answer David then it'll take more women speaking out, more women with power helping out and for a minority of women to stop being so shallow in the pursuit of fame and fortune that only encourage men like Weinstein to persist with the casting couch of Hollywood.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | The fact that he had so much power and lack of accountability is a direct product of capitalism, yes, and the way in which the American film industry is organised. Savile and Harris are different as their crimes were only peripherally related to their roles in the respective organisations/arenas you mention. Weinstein's were inseparable from his role as producer, as someone who could make or break careers. This is fundamentally different to if he'd, say, had a habit of groping women in bars or on the train or had a history of spousal abuse. This was entirely part of the business model actresses and other employees were expected to submit to his abuse, and they lost opportunities if they did not. |
he got his power from the capitalist system, yes. Doesn't mean capitalism is at fault, people can get power in many different ways. It's the abuse of power that's the issue, not the means by which he got the power.
I also agree with WPT and Swoop.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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You could even say that the actresses who profited from the arrangement did so at the expense of more principled women who refused his advances. Fear and greed are powerful motivators.
As for it being because of capitalism; I'm sure there has never been sexual favours used or demanded in all the socialist utopias the world has seen. In this case it was for fame and fortune in those cases it's for bread or medicine. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Wokko wrote: | You could even say that the actresses who profited from the arrangement did so at the expense of more principled women who refused his advances. Fear and greed are powerful motivators.
As for it being because of capitalism; I'm sure there has never been sexual favours used or demanded in all the socialist utopias the world has seen. In this case it was for fame and fortune in those cases it's for bread or medicine. |
It's also a racing certainty that some women very willingly and purposefully traded their sexuality to Weinstein for his favours. Reality is so much more complex than these cheap abstractions about "men" and "capitalism".
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | You could even say that the actresses who profited from the arrangement did so at the expense of more principled women who refused his advances. Fear and greed are powerful motivators.
As for it being because of capitalism; I'm sure there has never been sexual favours used or demanded in all the socialist utopias the world has seen. In this case it was for fame and fortune in those cases it's for bread or medicine. |
It's also a racing certainty that some women very willingly and purposefully traded their sexuality to Weinstein for his favours. Reality is so much more complex than these cheap abstractions about "men" and "capitalism". |
That's an interesting chicken -egg situation. Did he start out trying to coerce women or did he start out getting "offers" from ambitious wanna be actresses, liked it and decided to take the initiative from then on.
None of this justifies his actions btw
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I think the argument about women not standing up Weinstein is not a good one as it detracts from the courage of the women who have.
The notion of offering sex is a side issue & really a distraction from the main game here: male abuse of power.
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âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | We are men, though, WPT. What can we do to make the behaviour of men like Weinstein less prevalent? |
Small steps.
I would start by making all parliaments have 50% women & 50% men all the way to local goverment
I would start to rid religious institutions of tax free status unless they have women clergy in equal numbers or making active steps to do so.
This too should apply to corporations & and unions.
Working in this direction would be a start in the right direction.
Mrs WPT would see all sex offenders castrated & have their dicks cut off but then again she's more progressive than me 
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âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | | We are men, though, WPT. What can we do to make the behaviour of men like Weinstein less prevalent? |
Small steps.
I would start by making all parliaments have 50% women & 50% men all the way to local goverment |
(As against the best people for the job. silly idea. How do you do it.So what if all the women nominated lose or all the men. Do you turf out a legally elected person for a quota).
[quote=watt price tully]I would start to rid religious institutions of tax free status unless they have women clergy in equal numbers or making active steps to do so.[/quote] (Just get rid of tax free status period. It won't solve this problem but should be done anyway. Charitable activities remain tax deductible)
[quote=watt price tully]This too should apply to corporations & and unions. [/quote](Again how do you police this.If say 95 percent of the CFMEU is men why should the union have to employ women who do not know the industry. Or work in it.Corporations have the same issues. They have a responsibility to shareholders to do the best for them and they could be turning their backs on highly qualified people because of gender. Are you going to sack half the women who dominate certain industries. Health services is an example. You want to send women to the front line when OH and S prohibits lifting of certain weapons).
[quote=watt price tully]Working in this direction would be a start in the right direction.[/quote](It is not. The entertainment industry are largely self employed in the acting and musical professions.Centuries ago women could not even be on stage. The simple thing would be for the offended to simply refuse to work for the likes of these creeps. But fame and fortune beyond most peoples comprehension beckons. The choice is theirs. If raped it is a Police matter.)
[quote=watt price tully]Mrs WPT would see all sex offenders castrated & have their dicks cut off but then again she's more progressive than me [/quote]( The assumption here is that all predators are male. It won't stop them. The most agressive people in Thailand areas are the ladyboys. Cut or not. ) [/quote]
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I agree with your wife WPT, but not sure this case would qualify for it. Hes a sleaze for sure, but is it rape?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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