Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Was Buckley really a good kick?

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion
 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

masoncox wrote:
neil wrote:
masoncox wrote:
mudlark wrote:
masoncox wrote:
A great kick means a great kick ..... it would include both field and goal kicking. That goal kicking stat is pretty weird for a guy who most claim to be a great kick.

A couple of questions here. Do you think Locket,Dunstal or McKenna were great kicks? Could any of them kick accurately with their non preferred? Could they have gathered the ball on the run and at full tilt, hit a team mate ,lace out 40 mtrs away, either foot??In Buckleys case 50 or more mtrs. But they were all great kicks YEAH??

Saw them all and they were all great kicks.
Stats for all re goals to behinds ratio.

MacKenna 874 to 470
Dunstall 1254 to 641
Lockett. 1360 to 590
So for those great forwards it is roughly 2 to 1 goals to behinds ratio. Far superior to Buckley's.

You do realise you are comparing forwards with mids
Try comparing Bucks to Voss or Judd

Both Voss and Judd have better goal to behind kicking ratio.
With Voss by a fair way. And Judd wasn't considered much of a kick. The problem here is that there are not any stats to back up the theory that Buckley was a great kick. There is the goal to behind ratio and that is it as far as I know. There is no kicking efficency or hit ups or whatever. We know he was a long spearing kick on both sides of his body. But what was his success rate? As I said before who on this board would have said that Langdon was our top disposal player of 2017? Read the weekly match day thread and every week Langdon was bagged about his disposals. A bit more objective please.

I'm not sure that Bucks' disposal was quite as good as Tommy's - but then Future Captain is very special.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
masoncox 

masoncox


Joined: 31 Aug 2015


PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
Interesting.


I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to downgrade Buckley's playing career as some cheap shot though. The overall package was a pretty damn good footballer.

The point is...it is a historical question. Was he a great kick? It is the off season so some indulgence is allowed. My work colleague stated he wasn't and I remembered that he often missed his targets over a long distance. Now is my memory wrong? So I looked at some stats but it only gave me goal to behind ratio's and nothing else. And what else do I get....Yeah he was a great kick with no objective facts other than this or that guy said he was great. Which isn't much to go on.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Adam Treloar 3 Votes 



Joined: 09 May 2017


PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:57 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Above all Nathan Buckley was regarded as a great kick by his peers. You don't have the kicking skills test at the elite under 18 combine named after you if your not a great kick.

Who cares what a supporter with a short memory and strong anti Bucks bias thinks.

_________________
People forget that our last premiership was only 2010 and rebuilds take some time. 2018 we play finals again.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
droversdog65 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014


PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:10 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

masoncox wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:
masoncox wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:
I WILL take the last word on this from the late Bob Rose, whom many think was the Magpies greatest ever player. On Bucks, just before he passed away, Rose said, in his opinion, Buckley is the greatest player HE ever saw play for the PIes, end of story. This is fact.

It was about his kicking and he wasn't the greatest player in post war at collingwood full stop.


I think Bob Roses opinion, carries FAR more weight than that of ours, for what its worth mate, come on, and from my memory Bucks was at least as good a kick as Pendles is, I don't recall him fluffing many, he did kick some very long goals. Surprised

The thing was his goal kicking by the stats alone was lousy. It is an interesting point. His DE ( disposal efficiency ) is not displayed or recorded as far as I know.

Wasn't in the side for goal kicking - it was his field kicking, 60 meter bullet passes onto leading team mates chests without them breaking stride.
Best field kick of the modern era.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:23 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
Interesting.

Buckley was a great kick on either foot, he could hit a bloke on the chest from 50m with a low flat pass. he had to learn depth and timing, in his early years he used the 1 wood when he should have used a 7 iron and damn near drilled the ball through players, but he learned.

he wasn't a great kick for goal however, particularly from set shots. he wouldn't be the only midfielder who was far better spotting a target while running than taking a set shot.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to downgrade Buckley's playing career as some cheap shot though. The overall package was a pretty damn good footballer.


Well said stui.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:33 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

....and just imagine how valuable an asset his kicking would be in today's modern game.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk .......
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies2016 



Joined: 12 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:41 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
Interesting.

Buckley was a great kick on either foot, he could hit a bloke on the chest from 50m with a low flat pass. he had to learn depth and timing, in his early years he used the 1 wood when he should have used a 7 iron and damn near drilled the ball through players, but he learned.

he wasn't a great kick for goal however, particularly from set shots. he wouldn't be the only midfielder who was far better spotting a target while running than taking a set shot.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to downgrade Buckley's playing career as some cheap shot though. The overall package was a pretty damn good footballer.


Well said Stui, including the last paragraph. The only knock on Buckleys kicking ever, was that he would occasionally drill the weighted kick to a team mates when he didn't have to. He didn't quite have Jarmans finesse but Jarman couldn't do what Buckley could over distance.

And I promised myself I wasn't going to get involved with this thread. Sighh Crying or Very sad
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
September Zeros 



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:50 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

masoncox wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Interesting.


I'm not sure what the point of this thread is, other than to downgrade Buckley's playing career as some cheap shot though. The overall package was a pretty damn good footballer.

The point is...it is a historical question. Was he a great kick? It is the off season so some indulgence is allowed. My work colleague stated he wasn't and I remembered that he often missed his targets over a long distance. Now is my memory wrong? So I looked at some stats but it only gave me goal to behind ratio's and nothing else. And what else do I get....Yeah he was a great kick with no objective facts other than this or that guy said he was great. Which isn't much to go on.


To answer your historical question. He was a magnificent field kick. So yes your memory is wrong. He was was not a great set shot at goal - one of his few flaws. There are not a lot of objective facts to offer you compared to the modern day data base. So you and your mate will just have to rely on the subjective testimony of those that watched him play. Especially if you yourself have forgotten what a beast he was on both sides of his body.

_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds

They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
________________
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
madman Gemini



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:36 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

one of the few players in AFL history, that was tagged his whole career, 1st game to last game. That is how good Bucks was.

end of story.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Visdom 

Success takes planning


Joined: 02 Mar 2008


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:00 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan was an amazing kick. Never bet the farm on statistics. They only tell part of any story. Nathan played in one of the worst periods of Collingwoods history. He often had shots on goal outside of 50 on the run as he had no other options. He was often a one man team. He was the most tagged footballers when tagging was at the peak of fashion. Ling use to hang on him on and off the ball and never give away a free. Those were the times. Nathan broke the lines better than most player I have seen and cause damage to opposition defensive plans. Don't listen to Nathan critics. He is a legend of the game. Nathan personifies what it means to be Collingwood and Collingwood haters therefore focus their hate on him.
_________________
Relentless aggression!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Geek 

geek


Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:08 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

madman wrote:
one of the few players in AFL history, that was tagged his whole career, 1st game to last game. That is how good Bucks was.

end of story.


Double tagged through the late 90's too. Still got it 30 times a game and delivered it exceptionally.

I was too young to really appreciate how god Daicos was so Buckley has the best kick I can say I've seen for the Pies. Dids was pretty bloody good but I'll trust the old timers when they say he wasn't fit to tie Daic's boots.

Agree that Jarman was also brilliant but was a different style. Leon had such beautiful control off the boot and Betts has assumed his mantle. Reckon Leon had the better field kick though.

f course, if you are going to say that goal kicking is the be-all-end-all of kicking ability, then the best kick at the Pies was Jack Anthony. Just saying. Had a nice little run there though.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
magpieazza 

magpieazza


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: Griffith N.S.W

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:08 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Visdom wrote:
Nathan was an amazing kick. Never bet the farm on statistics. They only tell part of any story. Nathan played in one of the worst periods of Collingwoods history. He often had shots on goal outside of 50 on the run as he had no other options. He was often a one man team. He was the most tagged footballers when tagging was at the peak of fashion. Ling use to hang on him on and off the ball and never give away a free. Those were the times. Nathan broke the lines better than most player I have seen and cause damage to opposition defensive plans. Don't listen to Nathan critics. He is a legend of the game. Nathan personifies what it means to be Collingwood and Collingwood haters therefore focus their hate on him.



Spot on

_________________
Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
jatsad 



Joined: 29 May 2010


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:47 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Stats. Stats. Bloody stats.

His goal kicking stats may not measure up to the "full forwards" who were closer to goal, but can anyone say how many of those were set shots close in. They could have been 60 out on the boundary for all we know.

But let me say this.

I've been watching Collingwood since 1967 and I can honestly say Buckley is the best kick of a football I've seen, and that includes other teams, not just Collingwood.

Over distance, he could hit low, flat passes that hit players without breaking stride. Yes there were times when he probably kicked a tad too hard, but I would say the receiving player should just make do.

Some will argue Jarman was a better kick, but I never saw Jarman, regularly kick out from full back and hit up players 60 meters away. I saw Buckley do that.

Left foot, right foot, it didn't matter and most times he had to deal with a heavy tag whilst kicking.

Simply the best.

_________________
Jatsad - That is all
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:29 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote:
Above all Nathan Buckley was regarded as a great kick by his peers. You don't have the kicking skills test at the elite under 18 combine named after you if your not a great kick.

Who cares what a supporter with a short memory and strong anti Bucks bias thinks.


Olivia Newton John has part of the Austin Hospital named after her. She must have been a great surgeon.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:51 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Geek wrote:
madman wrote:
one of the few players in AFL history, that was tagged his whole career, 1st game to last game. That is how good Bucks was.

end of story.


Double tagged through the late 90's too. Still got it 30 times a game and delivered it exceptionally.

I was too young to really appreciate how god Daicos was so Buckley has the best kick I can say I've seen for the Pies. Dids was pretty bloody good but I'll trust the old timers when they say he wasn't fit to tie Daic's boots.

Agree that Jarman was also brilliant but was a different style. Leon had such beautiful control off the boot and Betts has assumed his mantle. Reckon Leon had the better field kick though.

f course, if you are going to say that goal kicking is the be-all-end-all of kicking ability, then the best kick at the Pies was Jack Anthony. Just saying. Had a nice little run there though.


As for the Daicos/Didak thoughts, I loved Didak as a player and he was a great kick but he was nowhere near Daicos' standard around goals. Daicos did things that had never been done before, which modern players now train to do as a matter of course, but don't, with extremely few exceptions, do as well. Betts is fantastic close to goal, but he can't bang through a 65 metre torp like Daicos did.

If your life depended upon a goal from the boundary being kicked, no-one that saw Daicos and Buckley play would be selecting Buckley. Go to You Tube and look at our first goal in the 90 GF. Daicos was hard on the boundary, gathered the ball under pressure from Mark Thomson if I recall correctly, then drilled it over the goal umpires head. I still get goose bumps just picturing that after all these years.

When Daicos had the ball there was an electric feeling in the crowd, that you were about to see something special. I always likened Buckley to Dunstall. They never did anything outlandish or particularly flashy, they just executed the basics extremely well, time and time again.

Buckley was an elite field kick but not so reliable close to goals. I don't care about the stats, that's what I remember. Buckley's kicking - or decision making - to my knowledge first came under fire after the drawn Anzac Day game when he kicked to Sav, who had about 10 by that stage but also 3 opponents on him, rather than running slightly further and kicking for goal. Can't blame him for kicking to a bloke that was on fire though.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 4 of 10   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group