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Bucks5 Capricorn



Joined: 23 Mar 2002


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:32 am
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K wrote:
Bucks5 wrote:
Funny that is isn't streamed this year, or is it? I didn't see the email.

In past years, the B&F has been streamed, but the Member Forum has had no streaming but only edited videos afterwards. (All this according to my current memory.) The club has indicated that there'll be such videos this year, too.


Maybe, but I remember watching something that the club had streamed and you could not see the powerpoint slides and the camera work was shocking. It was not the B&F so what else could it have been? I remember Bucks, Eddy, Pert, Hine and the Fitness guy all presented.

After I had posted, I also saw they will be releasing video highlights over the next few days on the club's twitter.

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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:44 am
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Raw Hammer wrote:
Because 17 other teams didnít think he was a top 25 Pick.

Based on our inability to identify our own star talent in recent seasons, itís a worry that we were the only club to identify a particular player as top 10 when no one else did.


actually, they didn't think he was top 40.

Even if they are wrong and we are right and he is a star. Using pick 6 on a player that no-one else is interested in at pick 40 makes you incompetent to participate in the draft.

And we know Collingwood people aren't incompetent. So the real point of the pick 6 question is whether the reason they made that shit up about Murphy being a pick 6 alternate to Stephenson means that they are more worried than they are letting on about the health of Stephenson.

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Last edited by E on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:46 am
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Dave The Man wrote:
Damien wrote:
Can someone explain to me why having Murphy at 6 is a problem?


People have to Complain about something Laughing


lucky you put a smiley face on that one Dave. I thought you were being serious and i was going to point out that if its not the Murphy at 6 issue, then people would complain about the Murray trade.

Smiley faces are important it turns out. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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The Boy Who Cried Wolf 



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:50 am
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Full credit to Eddie. The second last guy who spoke said the review of the football department didn't go far enough and should have recommended after 4 years of failure that Buckley should have been sacked and we should be looking for a new senior coach for 2018. People tried to drown him out but Eddie let him speak. Then after the meeting Eddie went over to him and spoke to him.


Any chance of finding out what was said between them... some of us would also like to know.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 am
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The forum is wank to appease the masses, most of whom are not happy.

Quote:
"Actions always prove why words mean nothing". "Talk is cheap, you show who truly are by what you consistently do. And when your actions are congruent with your words".
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:48 am
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:
BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Full credit to Eddie. The second last guy who spoke said the review of the football department didn't go far enough and should have recommended after 4 years of failure that Buckley should have been sacked and we should be looking for a new senior coach for 2018. People tried to drown him out but Eddie let him speak. Then after the meeting Eddie went over to him and spoke to him.


Any chance of finding out what was said between them... some of us would also like to know.


You'll have to attend next year

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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 am
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E wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Because 17 other teams didnít think he was a top 25 Pick.

Based on our inability to identify our own star talent in recent seasons, itís a worry that we were the only club to identify a particular player as top 10 when no one else did.


actually, they didn't think he was top 40.

Even if they are wrong and we are right and he is a star. Using pick 6 on a player that no-one else is interested in at pick 40 makes you incompetent to participate in the draft.

And we know Collingwood people aren't incompetent. So the real point of the pick 6 question is whether the reason they made that shit up about Murphy being a pick 6 alternate to Stephenson means that they are more worried than they are letting on about the health of Stephenson.


You're assuming perfect knowledge E. Given you don't have a list of everyone else's wish list, how can you really know where others see him on their pecking order? It might be reasonable to think that someone you liked might slip a handful of spots, but not 30-40 slots as Murphy did.

Our list had Rayner 1, Stephenson 2 & Murphy at 6. Who's to say that other clubs didn't have him similar as you entered the draft that evening?

Still, I accept the view that they may be protecting themselves if Stephenson is a bust, to sell to the members believe that we have an alternate Top 10 pick anyhow. It's elaborate to then invite him to the draft, as a potential Top 10 pick, in order to back that view up however.

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Pies4shaw 

"Phil had more talent in his little finger than both Abletts combined displayed in their entire careers"


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:19 am
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Albert Parker wrote:
The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:
BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Full credit to Eddie. The second last guy who spoke said the review of the football department didn't go far enough and should have recommended after 4 years of failure that Buckley should have been sacked and we should be looking for a new senior coach for 2018. People tried to drown him out but Eddie let him speak. Then after the meeting Eddie went over to him and spoke to him.


Any chance of finding out what was said between them... some of us would also like to know.


You'll have to attend next year

Because all of the same things will be said (again, again, again)? Wink
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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 am
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Albert Parker wrote:
E wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Because 17 other teams didnít think he was a top 25 Pick.

Based on our inability to identify our own star talent in recent seasons, itís a worry that we were the only club to identify a particular player as top 10 when no one else did.


actually, they didn't think he was top 40.

Even if they are wrong and we are right and he is a star. Using pick 6 on a player that no-one else is interested in at pick 40 makes you incompetent to participate in the draft.

And we know Collingwood people aren't incompetent. So the real point of the pick 6 question is whether the reason they made that shit up about Murphy being a pick 6 alternate to Stephenson means that they are more worried than they are letting on about the health of Stephenson.


You're assuming perfect knowledge E. Given you don't have a list of everyone else's wish list, how can you really know where others see him on their pecking order? It might be reasonable to think that someone you liked might slip a handful of spots, but not 30-40 slots as Murphy did.

Our list had Rayner 1, Stephenson 2 & Murphy at 6. Who's to say that other clubs didn't have him similar as you entered the draft that evening?

Still, I accept the view that they may be protecting themselves if Stephenson is a bust, to sell to the members believe that we have an alternate Top 10 pick anyhow. It's elaborate to then invite him to the draft, as a potential Top 10 pick, in order to back that view up however.


Yes, you make a good point re knowledge. i've no doubt the pies rate him highly. He looks like a gem actually (and i'd just love to see him evolve the way Dayne Beams did - also a later pick). But imagine if we took Dayne Beams at 11 because we miscalculated on him and accordingly we miss out on Sidebottom. What a disaster that would have been.

It is precisely this scenario that the pies are trying to sell us on. We need to recognize the madness of that assertion.

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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:41 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
Albert Parker wrote:
The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote:
BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
Full credit to Eddie. The second last guy who spoke said the review of the football department didn't go far enough and should have recommended after 4 years of failure that Buckley should have been sacked and we should be looking for a new senior coach for 2018. People tried to drown him out but Eddie let him speak. Then after the meeting Eddie went over to him and spoke to him.


Any chance of finding out what was said between them... some of us would also like to know.


You'll have to attend next year

Because all of the same things will be said (again, again, again)? Wink


Which is where being able to have 1on1 conversations is valuable if you are interested. It gave me some interesting perspectives on a couple of issues that I was particularly interested in.

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BucksIsFutureCoach 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:42 am
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Culprit wrote:
The forum is wank to appease the masses, most of whom are not happy.

Quote:
"Actions always prove why words mean nothing". "Talk is cheap, you show who truly are by what you consistently do. And when your actions are congruent with your words".


It's not a wankfest. It's a chance for the members to get to say how they think the club is being run and to get feedback from the club. Also not everybody talks. You can listen to what is being said, watch for body language from people and get to know the people who run the club.
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:52 am
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E wrote:
Albert Parker wrote:
E wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Because 17 other teams didnít think he was a top 25 Pick.

Based on our inability to identify our own star talent in recent seasons, itís a worry that we were the only club to identify a particular player as top 10 when no one else did.


actually, they didn't think he was top 40.

Even if they are wrong and we are right and he is a star. Using pick 6 on a player that no-one else is interested in at pick 40 makes you incompetent to participate in the draft.

And we know Collingwood people aren't incompetent. So the real point of the pick 6 question is whether the reason they made that shit up about Murphy being a pick 6 alternate to Stephenson means that they are more worried than they are letting on about the health of Stephenson.


You're assuming perfect knowledge E. Given you don't have a list of everyone else's wish list, how can you really know where others see him on their pecking order? It might be reasonable to think that someone you liked might slip a handful of spots, but not 30-40 slots as Murphy did.

Our list had Rayner 1, Stephenson 2 & Murphy at 6. Who's to say that other clubs didn't have him similar as you entered the draft that evening?

Still, I accept the view that they may be protecting themselves if Stephenson is a bust, to sell to the members believe that we have an alternate Top 10 pick anyhow. It's elaborate to then invite him to the draft, as a potential Top 10 pick, in order to back that view up however.


Yes, you make a good point re knowledge. i've no doubt the pies rate him highly. He looks like a gem actually (and i'd just love to see him evolve the way Dayne Beams did - also a later pick). But imagine if we took Dayne Beams at 11 because we miscalculated on him and accordingly we miss out on Sidebottom. What a disaster that would have been.

It is precisely this scenario that the pies are trying to sell us on. We need to recognize the madness of that assertion.


But, to use that analogy, both Steele and Beams were in fact amongst the better players of that draft. We did get a bargain in Beams. Same guys drafting Stephenson and Murphy. Might be right again?
Murphy touched up The highly rated Jarrod Brander, kicking 7 goals on him for Brighton Grammar. He appears a really neat kick, courageous, strong overhead with good endurance. There is reasonable grounds to believe there is substantial upside given he has never done a football pre-season given cricket commitments.

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E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:22 am
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Albert Parker wrote:
E wrote:
Albert Parker wrote:
E wrote:
Raw Hammer wrote:
Because 17 other teams didnít think he was a top 25 Pick.

Based on our inability to identify our own star talent in recent seasons, itís a worry that we were the only club to identify a particular player as top 10 when no one else did.


actually, they didn't think he was top 40.

Even if they are wrong and we are right and he is a star. Using pick 6 on a player that no-one else is interested in at pick 40 makes you incompetent to participate in the draft.

And we know Collingwood people aren't incompetent. So the real point of the pick 6 question is whether the reason they made that shit up about Murphy being a pick 6 alternate to Stephenson means that they are more worried than they are letting on about the health of Stephenson.


You're assuming perfect knowledge E. Given you don't have a list of everyone else's wish list, how can you really know where others see him on their pecking order? It might be reasonable to think that someone you liked might slip a handful of spots, but not 30-40 slots as Murphy did.

Our list had Rayner 1, Stephenson 2 & Murphy at 6. Who's to say that other clubs didn't have him similar as you entered the draft that evening?

Still, I accept the view that they may be protecting themselves if Stephenson is a bust, to sell to the members believe that we have an alternate Top 10 pick anyhow. It's elaborate to then invite him to the draft, as a potential Top 10 pick, in order to back that view up however.


Yes, you make a good point re knowledge. i've no doubt the pies rate him highly. He looks like a gem actually (and i'd just love to see him evolve the way Dayne Beams did - also a later pick). But imagine if we took Dayne Beams at 11 because we miscalculated on him and accordingly we miss out on Sidebottom. What a disaster that would have been.

It is precisely this scenario that the pies are trying to sell us on. We need to recognize the madness of that assertion.


But, to use that analogy, both Steele and Beams were in fact amongst the better players of that draft. We did get a bargain in Beams. Same guys drafting Stephenson and Murphy. Might be right again?
Murphy touched up The highly rated Jarrod Brander, kicking 7 goals on him for Brighton Grammar. He appears a really neat kick, courageous, strong overhead with good endurance. There is reasonable grounds to believe there is substantial upside given he has never done a football pre-season given cricket commitments.


I totally agree. I think Murphy is the perfect use of pick 39 for all of those reasons. As Maynard was a great use of pick 30 and Beams a great use of 29. In each case by the way, the club looks really smart by getting such a good player and proving that their talent identification is fantastic (and sometimes its just dumb luck).

Its all about probability. At pick 39, you can take a guy with a lower probability of making it as an AFL footballer (because he isnt fully developed as a player) but who has certain intangibles that potentially make him a star. Perfect use of pick 39 actually, because the fully developed players at pick 39 probably arent going to be impactful players.

However, I think taking that same risk at pick 6 where you are required to take a player who will almost certainly be a 200 game backbone of the team type of player. We did that once in the year 2000 and it may have cost us flags!!!! Do you remember the year 2000 when we had pick 1 and 3 in the draft and Judkins gave up pick 3 in exchange for McKee because he really wanted this smokey called Danny Roach. All i'm saying is that Pavlich would have looked good at CHF in the 2003 grand final instead of Tristen Walker, Ben Kinnear or Jason Cloke !!!!!

i know Collingwood has learned its lesson on that and that is why i'm calling bullshit!

By the way, check out how many terrible players we had in our 2003 Grand Final Team. Nathan Buckley must have been so unbelievably good as a player to get this rag tag group into the Grand Final.


B: 26 Ben Johnson 14 Shane Wakelin 8 James Clement
HB: 39 Matthew Lokan 35 Simon Prestigiacomo 13 Richard Cole
C: 6 Brodie Holland 5 Nathan Buckley (c) 37 Ryan Lonie
HF: 11 Shane O'Bree 34 Jason Cloke 17 Scott Burns
F: 28 Ben Kinnear 38 Tristen Walker 20 Chris Tarrant
Foll: 25 Josh Fraser 2 Shane Woewodin 18 Paul Licuria
Int: 4 Alan Didak 29 Heath Scotland 22 Rhyce Shaw
1 Leon Davis

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BucksIsFutureCoach 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:31 am
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Give Scotty Burns some credit as well for getting the players up into the 2003 GF.
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 am
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^^I take your point. Both De Goey and Scharanberg were in that range and while both show good signs, you'd declare neither as 250 game stars just yet. James Aish similar and looking even more speculative.

Can depend upon the draft they're taken in of course.

2 of 3 of these guys stepping up this year is vital to see us return to the finals.

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