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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:23 am
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It gets more interesting the more you look.

Since the Port Arthur massacre and the gun amnesty that followed, there's some facts that seem to be ignored.

In Australia, between 1997 & 2013, there was 22,310 violent crimes committed where a firearm was the weapon of choice. That's 1,312 offences a year or just over 3.5/daily for 17 years following the much celebrated gun amnesty.

748 people killed or 44 a year... almost 1 person a week.

Yet we hear from the media that Australia's gun control is so fantastic Confused
I thought nobody had guns anymore?

http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/weaponUseTrend.html

Trinidad/Tobago, the third richest country in America after the US & Canada has 1.6 guns/100 people yet their murder rate is 28/100,000 people (annual), the USA, 112 guns/100 people has 4 murders/100,000 people and Australia, 24 guns/100 people has 1 murder/100,000 people.

The USA ranks 107th out of 218 countries in per capita murder rates.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-06-27/map-here-are-countries-worlds-highest-murder-rates

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:28 am
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1 a week australia wide.

USA average 85 people die from gun shot wounds per DAY

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

I love the USA but you just canít compare like that.

Gun control works. Unfortunately there will always be one nutter, one criminal (or 5000) left.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 am
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One what?
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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:47 am
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think positive wrote:
1 a week australia wide.

USA average 85 people die from gun shot wounds per DAY

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

I love the USA but you just canít compare like that.

Gun control works. Unfortunately there will always be one nutter, one criminal (or 5000) left.


From that page TP...

Gun violence is most common in poor urban areas and frequently associated with gang violence, often involving male juveniles or young adult males.Although mass shootings have been covered extensively in the media, mass shootings account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths and the frequency of these events steadily declined between 1994 and 2007, rising between 2007 and 2013.

Gun control would not stop the gangs getting hold of guns.

Do our archaic drug laws stop people getting drugs?

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:58 am
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apparently thats not quite correct:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm

one article states approximately 60% of gun deaths are suicides. that year there were 32,000 deaths by gunshot. thats aprox 19,200 suicides that may have been prevented if a gun was not available.

as for the drugs, line the dealers put them all to work breaking rocks. not that kind.

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:03 am
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think positive wrote:
1 a week australia wide.

USA average 85 people die from gun shot wounds per DAY

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

I love the USA but you just canít compare like that.

Gun control works. Unfortunately there will always be one nutter, one criminal (or 5000) left.


The actual murder rate isn't that disproportionate though. Meaning that our murderers; stab, choke or burn their victims more I guess?

Murder rate per million people

AUS Ranked 73th. 10.38
USA Ranked 43th. 42.01 4 times more than Australia

An interesting one for me is the rape comparison....

Rapes per million people

AUS Ranked 6th. 289.05 5% more than United States
USA Ranked 9th 274.04

Rapists know their victims will be unarmed here, not in the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:09 am
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think positive wrote:
apparently thats not quite correct:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm

one article states approximately 60% of gun deaths are suicides. that year there were 32,000 deaths by gunshot. thats aprox 19,200 suicides that may have been prevented if a gun was not available.

as for the drugs, line the dealers put them all to work breaking rocks. not that kind.


Again, proportionately, there isn't much difference in suicide rates.

USA - 12.6 suicides per 100,000 people

Aus - 10.4 suicides per 100,000 people

If someone is going to take their own life, they will, using whatever means they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:13 am
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Don't mistake my kindness for weakness.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:14 am
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Pa Marmo wrote:
think positive wrote:

And Obamaís still rocks! Obama tried, he pushed for gun control.


Obama rocks, please, open your eyes Joanne, he was and is a race baiting creature whose presidency did nothing but descend America into the mess it is today. The only impact he had on gun control was the legalization of bump stuck guns, enabling semi automatics to function as full automatics, which by the way, the NRA spoke out against at the time.


Wrong. The Obama Administration did not approve it, they determined they could not legislate against it. massive difference.


The NRA said, "The Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions."

We indeed found two occasions in which ATF, a bureau within the executive branch, decided it could not regulate bump stocks during the Obama administration.

These decisions allowed two companies to sell bump stocks. Itís important to note this was not a statement of Obamaís preferred policy, which called for more regulation of guns, but was what the agency determined it had to do under the language of current law.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/oct/06/national-rifle-association/nra-claim-obama-approved-bump-stocks/



how anyone can defend the evil corrupt NRA is beyond me.

what Obama did try to do

https://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesola/2016/01/06/obama-gun-control/#32d995a93f36


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/why-cant-president-obama-just-fix-the-gun-epidemic-himself/418839/


So so much has to change, i have no idea what the answer is or what it will take to make the changes.

And as an aside, i dont care if he is a Muslim, Muslims are not evil (Misogynists, yes, evil, no), Extremists are evil. Any kind of Extremist.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:18 am
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I can see where you are coming from.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:18 am
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Skids wrote:
think positive wrote:
apparently thats not quite correct:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm

one article states approximately 60% of gun deaths are suicides. that year there were 32,000 deaths by gunshot. thats aprox 19,200 suicides that may have been prevented if a gun was not available.

as for the drugs, line the dealers put them all to work breaking rocks. not that kind.


Again, proportionately, there isn't much difference in suicide rates.

USA - 12.6 suicides per 100,000 people

Aus - 10.4 suicides per 100,000 people

If someone is going to take their own life, they will, using whatever means they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate


i dont agree.

sure, some are premeditated, but how many children would be alive if they couldnt access their parents gun? that happens here too. How many teenage mass murderers do so with their parents gun? how many grab a gun in the heat of the moment and use it on themselves or someone else?

How many lives would these points alone save?

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:39 am
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Well the stats don't lie TP.

Suicide rates are almost identical yet the legal gun ownership in the US is 4 times ours.

Gun availability has zero to do with suicides.

The most common method of suicide is hanging followed by pesticide poisoning, firearms are the third method of choice.

The leading method of suicide varies among countries. The leading methods in different regions include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms.[3] These differences are believed to be in part due to availability of the different methods. A review of 56 countries found that hanging was the most common method in most of the countries, accounting for 53% of the male suicides and 39% of the female suicides.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

I know this has gotten was off topic, but, my point is, the gun law line that we are fed is not the golden goose that the anti gun lobby would have us believe.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:50 am
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line up 32,000 people. thats a lot of people dead from bullets in one year, not in a war zone.

you cant deny a fair portion of those might be alive if not for guns.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Anywhere, I don't care I don't care I don't care

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:51 am
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Skids wrote:
think positive wrote:
apparently thats not quite correct:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm

one article states approximately 60% of gun deaths are suicides. that year there were 32,000 deaths by gunshot. thats aprox 19,200 suicides that may have been prevented if a gun was not available.

as for the drugs, line the dealers put them all to work breaking rocks. not that kind.


Again, proportionately, there isn't much difference in suicide rates.

USA - 12.6 suicides per 100,000 people

Aus - 10.4 suicides per 100,000 people

If someone is going to take their own life, they will, using whatever means they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate


That difference is far from statistically negligible. 2 per 100,000 = almost 500 Australians in a population of 24 million. In the US, that would be over 7000 people. If gun availability is a primary factor in that difference, those are a lot of lives being lost unnecessarily.

The idea that suicide is all about the desire and not the method is nonsense, by the way. Both are required. Firearms just happen to be a particularly quick and straightforward way to do it.

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:07 pm
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David wrote:
Skids wrote:
think positive wrote:
apparently thats not quite correct:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilippis/do-we-have-a-gang-problem_b_5071639.html

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/gun-stats-perspective.htm

one article states approximately 60% of gun deaths are suicides. that year there were 32,000 deaths by gunshot. thats aprox 19,200 suicides that may have been prevented if a gun was not available.

as for the drugs, line the dealers put them all to work breaking rocks. not that kind.


Again, proportionately, there isn't much difference in suicide rates.

USA - 12.6 suicides per 100,000 people

Aus - 10.4 suicides per 100,000 people

If someone is going to take their own life, they will, using whatever means they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate


That difference is far from statistically negligible. 2 per 100,000 = almost 500 Australians in a population of 24 million. In the US, that would be over 7000 people. If gun availability is a primary factor in that difference, those are a lot of lives being lost unnecessarily.


But it isn't.

Sri Lanka has the highest suicide rate in the world (34.6 people per 100,000), they only have 1.5 guns per 100 people (Aus has 25 per 100 people) with a population and gun laws similar to ours.

Sweden has a suicide rate almost identical to the US (12.7 compared to the US 12.6) yet they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the world with a gun ownership rate similar to ours.

France has the same rate as the US, yet less than a third of the gun ownership rate, with strict gun control laws also.

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