Las Vegas shooting
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I'm actually surprised he didn't fire upon the SWAT team as they crept down the corridor given the preparation he did in terms of cameras in and outside his room.
Looking at the supposedly leaked pictures from inside the hotel room he had a lot of ammunition still on hand.
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| David wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | There have been some unconfirmed reports of antifa and islamic literature found in the shooters belongings. |
If by ‘unconfirmed’ you mean ‘false’, then yes, I have seen these too (unless something credible has actually emerged, but I’m not holding my breath...). |
Did I say unconfirmed or did I say false, I understand your somewhat of a linguistic expert, but believe it or not, I indurstand the difference and meant what I wrote.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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Sounds legit
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Genesis 1:1 |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Jezza wrote: | It's best to wait until the official investigation brings to light more detail into what has transpired here.
Otherwise, anything else at the moment is just rumour and innuendo. |
Exactly right. Really glad his brother came out and said it’s rubbish. Personally I don’t want him having any excuse, just that he snapped. Don’t give him a reason. Don’t sweep it under the carpet of something else. Make the NRA answer for a change.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | It's best to wait until the official investigation brings to light more detail into what has transpired here.
Otherwise, anything else at the moment is just rumour and innuendo. |
"What has transpired here" is that some old guy, with or without a reason and with or without a mental health issue, got hold of a whole lot of guns and killed a lot of people. Maybe he did it because he was having a bad day. Maybe he did it because he was having a good day. It doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters is that, with reasonable laws about controlling access to lethal firepower, he probably wouldn't have done what he did so successfully. He may still have decided to get extrovertedly grumpy - but he simply wouldn't have been able to cause the carnage he did.
A "lone wolf" with one gun in a café in Sydney is a terrible thing. So is a "lone wolf" (or "ISIS operative" - it doesn't really make a difference) with a sword in England. But put 47 firearms and 10,000 bullets in the hands of those people, with the same twisted motives, and the situation is infinitely more serious.
The NRA will want the "investigators" to dig long and deep, until they find a "motive". They'd prefer, of course, evidence that he was an Islamist or a left-wing agitator but they will, eg, settle at a pinch for him harbouring a grudge against country musicians for some silly reason. Any motivating factor will do, so long as it is able to be used to deflect from the obvious.
But here - as in every case of a mass shooting incident, the most important thing is not careful analysis of motive, it is careful control of access to weaponry. |
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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | It's best to wait until the official investigation brings to light more detail into what has transpired here.
Otherwise, anything else at the moment is just rumour and innuendo. |
"What has transpired here" is that some old guy, with or without a reason and with or without a mental health issue, got hold of a whole lot of guns and killed a lot of people. Maybe he did it because he was having a bad day. Maybe he did it because he was having a good day. It doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters is that, with reasonable laws about controlling access to lethal firepower, he probably wouldn't have done what he did so successfully. He may still have decided to get extrovertedly grumpy - but he simply wouldn't have been able to cause the carnage he did.
A "lone wolf" with one gun in a café in Sydney is a terrible thing. So is a "lone wolf" (or "ISIS operative" - it doesn't really make a difference) with a sword in England. But put 47 firearms and 10,000 bullets in the hands of those people, with the same twisted motives, and the situation is infinitely more serious.
The NRA will want the "investigators" to dig long and deep, until they find a "motive". They'd prefer, of course, evidence that he was an Islamist or a left-wing agitator but they will, eg, settle at a pinch for him harbouring a grudge against country musicians for some silly reason. Any motivating factor will do, so long as it is able to be used to deflect from the obvious.
But here - as in every case of a mass shooting incident, the most important thing is not careful analysis of motive, it is careful control of access to weaponry. |
I disagree, I think it's important to determine motive.
There's only limited set of circumstances in which a person will set out to deliberately plan to kill multiple people and then take their own life. it's not a profile that fits the average serial killer or mass murderer, most don't intend to take their own life. This is why the authorities are now looking for a 3rd party involved, it just doesn't fit.
The means is different to motive and doesn't impact it. You have a guy who was able to legally acquire an arsenal and the means to convert several of them to effectively fully automatic. Irrespective of motive, if that doesn't raise serious questions about gun control and the current laws.............
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | It's best to wait until the official investigation brings to light more detail into what has transpired here.
Otherwise, anything else at the moment is just rumour and innuendo. |
"What has transpired here" is that some old guy, with or without a reason and with or without a mental health issue, got hold of a whole lot of guns and killed a lot of people. Maybe he did it because he was having a bad day. Maybe he did it because he was having a good day. It doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters is that, with reasonable laws about controlling access to lethal firepower, he probably wouldn't have done what he did so successfully. He may still have decided to get extrovertedly grumpy - but he simply wouldn't have been able to cause the carnage he did.
A "lone wolf" with one gun in a café in Sydney is a terrible thing. So is a "lone wolf" (or "ISIS operative" - it doesn't really make a difference) with a sword in England. But put 47 firearms and 10,000 bullets in the hands of those people, with the same twisted motives, and the situation is infinitely more serious.
The NRA will want the "investigators" to dig long and deep, until they find a "motive". They'd prefer, of course, evidence that he was an Islamist or a left-wing agitator but they will, eg, settle at a pinch for him harbouring a grudge against country musicians for some silly reason. Any motivating factor will do, so long as it is able to be used to deflect from the obvious.
But here - as in every case of a mass shooting incident, the most important thing is not careful analysis of motive, it is careful control of access to weaponry. |
I disagree, I think it's important to determine motive.
There's only limited set of circumstances in which a person will set out to deliberately plan to kill multiple people and then take their own life. it's not a profile that fits the average serial killer or mass murderer, most don't intend to take their own life. This is why the authorities are now looking for a 3rd party involved, it just doesn't fit.
The means is different to motive and doesn't impact it. You have a guy who was able to legally acquire an arsenal and the means to convert several of them to effectively fully automatic. Irrespective of motive, if that doesn't raise serious questions about gun control and the current laws............. |
Correct.
To what extent he would have gone to cause this carnage is totally dependant on the guys motive/mental state.
He had access to explosives, could have loaded a van and driven into a casino anywhere along the strip and caused just as much damage.
I agree, gun control is an issue in the USA... it isn't the worlds answer to lunatics with a motive.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
the explosive he had, tannerite I believe, is a bit special. Easy to buy as it's a 2 part compund, very stable and needs something like a high velocity bullet to set it off. Doesn't burn and won't explode from normal percussion. ( I googled it, not too hard to make either)
A highly motivated individual will find a way, no doubt, but the desire to find the motive doesn't lessen the fact that having easy access to the guns made the job relatively easy.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
the explosive he had, tannerite I believe, is a bit special. Easy to buy as it's a 2 part compund, very stable and needs something like a high velocity bullet to set it off. Doesn't burn and won't explode from normal percussion. ( I googled it, not too hard to make either)
A highly motivated individual will find a way, no doubt, but the desire to find the motive doesn't lessen the fact that having easy access to the guns made the job relatively easy. |
Odd. Tick.
Gun Lover. Tick.
Remote shack. Tick.
Knowledge of explosives. Tick.
Dislike of authority. Tick.
Am I missing something Stui? 
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
No criminal record tick.
nah, you're not missing anything.  
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
No criminal record tick.
nah, you're not missing anything. |
These events were once incredibly rare, though guns were widely owned in America for generations. They are now common. The question is why ?
One possibility is the widespread use of antidepressants, which seem to have a correlation with rage and homicidal and suicidal tendencies in a few people. So many of these mass killings - including by Islamists - seem to be conducted by people who are on anti-depressants or who have a long history of drug abuse. This individual was recently prescribed Daiazepam.
Of course, the causal effect, if any, may be the other way around - it may be that depression causes both murderous intent and a reliance on anti-depressants. But if we mess with synaptic processes, it would not be surprising to find that this has effects which seem incomprehensible to those with normal brain function.
This is not to advocate gun liberalization, which is clearly another necessary factor here. I would, however, like an inquiry into the question of anti-depressants and homicide.
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