If Cotchin was a Pie
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Prometheus 
Joined: 21 May 2007
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | I see it as a technically incorrect, but socially acceptable decision. It's easy to have a pre determined decision and then work backwards to find arguable reasoning.
I am happy that both he and Sloane are playing. I want to see the best out there on GF day.
I can't accept the "woe is me" Collingwood attitude on this. Carman, Cloke and Rocca all blatantly punched opponents. Cotchin didn't (just don't mention Barry Hall). |
Make NO mistake mate, if he wore black n white, he would be gone, end of story. One rule for some, one rule for others, Hall was no worse than either cloke or Rocca, Rocca was actually really stiff. Its rigged, pure and simple, the League loves fairytales, though the Crows will hopefully give them nightmares this Saturday.  |
We see the same things and interpret them differently.
You see conspiracy theories.
I don't.
One of us may be right or the truth may be somewhere in the middle.
Although, I do regularly, and on a first hand basis, see the hatred for us which is held by the "old money" supporters of Melbourne and Geelong. I don't see that directed towards us by the Richmond "elite", probably because the clubs have similar backgrounds. |
You don't need an official conspiracy when mutual interests converge. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Piesnchess wrote: | Shiel was concussed in the Final, and took NO further part in the game TOO !! No rotations etc, down a vital player. Oh and it sends out the message, courtesy of a corrupt League, to little Johnny, playing local junior footy, being ": Gee whiz, Cotchin got off for concussing that guy, big bump, must be ok for ME to bump now, no matter what, and I will get off, just like Cotchin did. " Unreal, just unreal decision.  |
I might also start banging-on about having a 23rd player [even a sub] for all AFL finals; why should teams come all this way deep into September to be disadvantaged by snipers like Crotchin?!
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | We see the same things and interpret them differently.You see conspiracy theories.I don't.
One of us may be right or the truth may be somewhere in the middle. |
I see totally logical/rational conspiracy theories but as you know, I really respect your posts so I kindly agree to disagree with you on this 5ftwod.
I re-post a post I made on Nick's about 9-10 years ago. Nothing has changed and my logic is still simply true. Not much anyone can do about it as with the AFL so all you get (in MY opinion) is bloody corruption.
Bad umpiring is simply an evil Collingwood have to put up with.
Reason for umpires having subconscious bias against Collingwood:-
1. Over 80% of general public hate Collingwood. (Probably more)
2. Umpires recruited from general public, therefore over 80% brought up hating Collingwood.
3. Umpires genuinely trained and taught to be professional, impartial and neutral; they DO NOT go out to actively or intentionally cheat.
4. However as humans, we ALL have what is called a sub conscious area of attitudes including making judgements, having prejudices and displaying biases. It is a part of human nature or simply being human.
5. Therefore most of the umpires in a REAL stressful environment and cauldron of an AFL game make many immediate decisions based on their sub conscious biases, as do many others in similar professions.
6. In my experience of watching footy, the obviously blatant frees are paid fairly and accordingly however most of the 50 - 50 decisions go against Collingwood.
If in doubt, watch the next few Collingwood games with neutral footy fans and check it out. Ask them to let you know their thoughts. I have done this and my observations have been confirmed quite a few times.
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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^Spot on Comrade, I recall that Pie hater ump, Stevic, who paid a free kick, againt Pendles, at a vital moment in a Hawks game, even though Stevic was 80 metres away, and overruled a much closer Umpire. ! The League is rotten to the Core.
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Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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If you listened to the Foxtel coverage of the game the commentators were pretending that Cotchin only hit Shiel in the shoulder. Then after the slow motion replay they agree that the hit may have been to the head but Cotchin is such a nice guy he didn't mean it. Of course after the game on the news they talk to such unbiased commentators such as Kevin Bartlett and Tony Jewel who both have nothing to do with Richmond and they say there was nothing in it. To press the matter home they talk to unbiased footy fans decked out in Richmond colours and all say how unbiased they are and there was nothing in it. Back to nice guy Cotchin who doesn't have a mean spirit in his body his two other priors before this one meant that he couldn't even risk a fine for the Shiel incident so everybody is tickled pink that the Shiel incident didn't even warrant a fine.
Of course none of the above applies to Paddy Dangerfield who won the Brownlow medal last year who goes for laying the perfect tackle on Kreuzer, or to Grundy who goes for two weeks for laying a perfect tackle on Brown that earned himself a free kick. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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The more I saw of the Cotchin incident the worse it looked IMO.
While I don't doubt he was looking to win the ball he was wanting to displace his opponent off the ball first with strong body contact
He succeeded and unfortunately for Shiel that meant copping a shoulder directly to the jaw that ultimately lead to a concussed state.
At the very least it was worth a fine and for a third strike that meant missing a grand final but once again the MRP play God and you can be damn sure if the Tigers had of lost or it was a low profile player a sanction would have been delivered.
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | ^Spot on Comrade, I recall that Pie hater ump, Stevic, who paid a free kick, againt Pendles, at a vital moment in a Hawks game, even though Stevic was 80 metres away, and overruled a much closer Umpire. ! The League is rotten to the Core. |
True Piesnchess.
I forgot to mention that in my working life, I find many Police Officers or Security Officers making very quick decisions based solely on sub conscious bias. I have nothing against the Police as I am a son of a Policeman who served for 35 years but this is about human nature/being human and how it affects immediate decision making. Anyone really interested can read about this stuff on google or there are some fantastic books on this subject. It is quite interesting how quick decisions are made in conjunction with existing biases, however well you are trained or prepared. Mistakes are ALWAYS made in any profession that requires quick decision making or immediate interpretations.
Happens in political thinking too but that is too much of a controversial issue so I won’t go there!!
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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And the incident we are talking about would not have even been discussed 10 years ago. The AFL has changed the interpenetration of the rules time and time again. There is no consistency or integrity. The MRP do not even recognise precedent so where is there any logic in the process.
Dangerfield and Grundy both being penalised earlier in the season are two examples of poor decisions having been made by the MRP.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Lazza wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | We see the same things and interpret them differently.You see conspiracy theories.I don't.
One of us may be right or the truth may be somewhere in the middle. |
I see totally logical/rational conspiracy theories but as you know, I really respect your posts so I kindly agree to disagree with you on this 5ftwod.
I re-post a post I made on Nick's about 9-10 years ago. Nothing has changed and my logic is still simply true. Not much anyone can do about it as with the AFL so all you get (in MY opinion) is bloody corruption.
Bad umpiring is simply an evil Collingwood have to put up with.
Reason for umpires having subconscious bias against Collingwood:-
1. Over 80% of general public hate Collingwood. (Probably more)
2. Umpires recruited from general public, therefore over 80% brought up hating Collingwood.
3. Umpires genuinely trained and taught to be professional, impartial and neutral; they DO NOT go out to actively or intentionally cheat.
4. However as humans, we ALL have what is called a sub conscious area of attitudes including making judgements, having prejudices and displaying biases. It is a part of human nature or simply being human.
5. Therefore most of the umpires in a REAL stressful environment and cauldron of an AFL game make many immediate decisions based on their sub conscious biases, as do many others in similar professions.
6. In my experience of watching footy, the obviously blatant frees are paid fairly and accordingly however most of the 50 - 50 decisions go against Collingwood.
If in doubt, watch the next few Collingwood games with neutral footy fans and check it out. Ask them to let you know their thoughts. I have done this and my observations have been confirmed quite a few times. |
I think we are at odds because of different ideas as to what a conspiracy is. An unconscious bias against us is not a conspiracy, although I agree that the bias seems to be there. A conspiracy exists if they are really out to get us, and they conspire with each other to deliberately achieve that. I can't watch the footy with my parents as that has always been their view. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | If you listened to the Foxtel coverage of the game the commentators were pretending that Cotchin only hit Shiel in the shoulder. Then after the slow motion replay they agree that the hit may have been to the head but Cotchin is such a nice guy he didn't mean it. Of course after the game on the news they talk to such unbiased commentators such as Kevin Bartlett and Tony Jewel who both have nothing to do with Richmond and they say there was nothing in it. To press the matter home they talk to unbiased footy fans decked out in Richmond colours and all say how unbiased they are and there was nothing in it. Back to nice guy Cotchin who doesn't have a mean spirit in his body his two other priors before this one meant that he couldn't even risk a fine for the Shiel incident so everybody is tickled pink that the Shiel incident didn't even warrant a fine.
Of course none of the above applies to Paddy Dangerfield who won the Brownlow medal last year who goes for laying the perfect tackle on Kreuzer, or to Grundy who goes for two weeks for laying a perfect tackle on Brown that earned himself a free kick. |
You missed the comment that I enjoyed the most.
Hardwick said words to the effect of "he won't be suspended, I expect him to play next week". In the next breath he said that he didn't see the incident (coaches never see these incidents). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| The correct decision has been made. Plainly, other decisions made during the year were ridiculously wrong (including Grundy's suspension). I don't think the fact that several stupid decisions were made during the year justified suspending Cotchin. Anyway, the MRP reached the correct decision this time. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | The correct decision has been made. Plainly, other decisions made during the year were ridiculously wrong (including Grundy's suspension). I don't think the fact that several stupid decisions were made during the year justified suspending Cotchin. Anyway, the MRP reached the correct decision this time. |
There have been complaints about tribunal/MRP decisions since the game began. No precedent, no certainty, rules sometimes apply, sometimes don't. Reasons for decisions are questioned for two minutes then forgotten about.
Here's one from last year. Lin Jong was suspended but probably did less wrong than Cotchin.
http://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/video-lin-jong-sparks-melee-after-high-bump-on-buntine/v73wlknrg7171i15oc89m5tma |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I don't think he's got anything to answer for. He went in low, not to bump, but to get the ball. It was incidental conduct imo. If he was attempting a bump he'd get 2 weeks, but as he went in low it's clear his hands were extended to grab the ball. |
That's not what the video shows. The fact that his hands were not extended to go for the ball when they could have been is what will cause him the problem. He had an alternative to bumping and didn't take that alternative.
Cotchin did what every footballer in the history of the game, until a decade or so ago, would have done. He clenched his right fist, kept his right arm close to his body, turned and bumped to protect the ball. He only reached for the ball after the bump. He tried to get as low as he could but was unlucky in that he hit the head.
Whether he meant to hit him in the head, or whether there was concusssion arising from that or from a later hit, is irrelevant. If the rules are applied as written the issue is whether he is suspended for 1 or 2 games (taking into account the other two incidents this year). The area of uncertainty is whether there will be a Barry Hall type intervention in the process or not. |
The correct decision has been made as I expected.
However, had Cotchin been a Collingwood player, he'd have got 2 weeks. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | If you listened to the Foxtel coverage of the game the commentators were pretending that Cotchin only hit Shiel in the shoulder. Then after the slow motion replay they agree that the hit may have been to the head but Cotchin is such a nice guy he didn't mean it. Of course after the game on the news they talk to such unbiased commentators such as Kevin Bartlett and Tony Jewel who both have nothing to do with Richmond and they say there was nothing in it. To press the matter home they talk to unbiased footy fans decked out in Richmond colours and all say how unbiased they are and there was nothing in it. Back to nice guy Cotchin who doesn't have a mean spirit in his body his two other priors before this one meant that he couldn't even risk a fine for the Shiel incident so everybody is tickled pink that the Shiel incident didn't even warrant a fine.
Of course none of the above applies to Paddy Dangerfield who won the Brownlow medal last year who goes for laying the perfect tackle on Kreuzer, or to Grundy who goes for two weeks for laying a perfect tackle on Brown that earned himself a free kick. |
Hammer, Nail, Head, and FCKUING BANG  
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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woodys_world69
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Brisbane
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No time in my footy career did I ever tuck my arm and shoulder into my body when trying to pick up the ball... MRP explanation is laughable.
But there is a silver lining... Richmond can't blame not having him playing for them losing...lol |
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