Here we go again....
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Piethagoras' Theorem
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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sorry, must have missed that. Lost interest around 30 pages in _________________ Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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watt price tully wrote: | slangman wrote: | watt price tully wrote: | MOTR wrote: | slangman wrote: | Heritier is an absolute FLOG!!!’
He seems to be struggling with the lack of attention after his football career ended.
I’m a “white” middle aged man of European origin and I could point out numerous instances of racism and sexism that I have had to “endure” over the years. Most people just go on and live their life, others however feel like that is what defines their existence.
Bring back Harry. |
I haven't really been following this debate, but when white men start equating their experiences of racism with that experienced by the black community, you can start to see what Harry is up against. |
Welcome aboard. This is mostly lets go H thread without exploring issues he has raised (this was occurring in another thread the Mods closed).
Last time most of the comments were simply denigrating of H with a long list of insults. The same is beginning to occur here too. It's not that H doesn't give opportunity for this to occur but the issues he raises are generally not discussed, without generally some level of abuse directed at him |
WPT do you think racism is colour specific?.... |
Generally speaking using that line of argument in this context is seriouly missing the point. "Waddabout me ism" is a spurious argument at the best of times & serves to miss any discussion of H's views but yet again is a vehicle to attack H especially when preceeded with words like let me see....flog...etc. Denigrating labels etc. |
Just a yes or no would have sufficed. _________________ - Side By Side - |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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OK Harry, you have had more than your fifteen mins of fame on this issue, you are now flogging a dead horse, over and over again. Mate, might be time to now STFU, you have made your points, and then some, time to move on, and get on with life. You cant save the world from bigotry,no matter how hard you try. Let it go now. _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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This is my final comment on this issue...... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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slangman wrote: |
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I have never dismissed Heritiers claim of being nicknamed “chimp”, nor have I ever denigrated him or his comments based on his colour.
I’m just perplexed about the way he’s raised it, his motives and his insistence of not among the players (who after all where the ones who gave him that nickname) whilst dragging the club and Buckley through the mud when as far as I’m aware, they were not aware of this name.
Happy to name and shame Bucks and the club, but not his teammates.
What’s his real agenda? |
In what way has H dragged the club and Buckley through the mud?
The documentary itself does not come across as an attack on Collingwood specifically.
General criticism from H (and some other players) has tended to be directed at the AFL in general.
And H has never publicly blamed Buckley for the nickname. Bucks comes up in the doco only when it covers
the incident where he asked H in front of the playing group about Seedsman's feelings, etc.
H's grievance with Buckley regards the coach's alleged lack of "emotional intelligence". |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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think positive wrote: | Agree with him on waleed though, he's a prick, though of course that's just my opinion! |
I'm not a fan of Waleed myself, but when he interviewed Lumumba on The Project, he gave the club the benefit of the doubt after Lumumba's allegations and he wasn't willing to criticise them vehemently without hearing our version of events first.
Lumumba likes to stick to a narrative that he's built up over time. When Waleed began challenging him on some of the allegations he made against the club and on the broader discussion that he has raised recently, Lumumba was stuttering and looked flustered.
I have no doubt that the "chimp" nickname was most likely directed towards him, as this has been corroborated by various former players, but in what context, intent and duration was the nickname used remains uncertain. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Fair enough Jezza 😉 _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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K wrote: | slangman wrote: |
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I have never dismissed Heritiers claim of being nicknamed “chimp”, nor have I ever denigrated him or his comments based on his colour.
I’m just perplexed about the way he’s raised it, his motives and his insistence of not among the players (who after all where the ones who gave him that nickname) whilst dragging the club and Buckley through the mud when as far as I’m aware, they were not aware of this name.
Happy to name and shame Bucks and the club, but not his teammates.
What’s his real agenda? |
In what way has H dragged the club and Buckley through the mud?
The documentary itself does not come across as an attack on Collingwood specifically.
General criticism from H (and some other players) has tended to be directed at the AFL in general.
And H has never publicly blamed Buckley for the nickname. Bucks comes up in the doco only when it covers
the incident where he asked H in front of the playing group about Seedsman's feelings, etc.
H's grievance with Buckley regards the coach's alleged lack of "emotional intelligence". |
Heritier was very scathing of Buckley and questioned his emotional intelligence in regards to the Seedsman incident whilst never addressing the fact that the nickname and it’s conotations, which is what his this whole story is centred around, started and was used for during Malthouses coaching reign.
Haven’t heard him question MM or name the players involved. Nor have I heard him make a concerted and mature effort in conjunction with the club to address these issues which have had such a massive impact on him with the players involved (reconciliation or education if you like).
Instead, he has made accusations against an industry, club and teammates when his main issue is really limited to some players.
Yes, he has absolutely dragged the club and Buckley through the mud. Maybe no deliberately but has nonetheless.
The order is:
The nickname “chimp”
The clubs racist and sexist culture
Buckley’s emotional intelligence
This is pretty much the story. _________________ - Side By Side - |
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Big Dan
Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Location: The Outside World
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I have no doubt that H feels he was a victim of racism at Collingwood, and unless you are the man himself you are in no position to say otherwise.
Like wise, those that have been tarred as racist by their once team mate would feel that there was absolutely racist intent in their actions.
My question for H is: what do you want?
Do you want the club to be dismantled, every body sacked, made to come grovelling?
Do you want to go back and see if there has been real change, because from what Debbie Lovett has said, the invite has been there but you refuse to accept it.
Is it simply a case of Ed, Bucks & everyone else standing up and saying "yes, you're right - everything you said is true", regardless of whether it is, or isn't?
I for one do not claim any which way or how it must feel to be the victim of discrimination based on the colour of your skin. I do not expect any body who has been vilified to simply "suck it up". I do however struggle to take an individuals claims as being the whole truth when every time a differing opinion, or a total lack of fawning is applied, results in claims of discrimination, persecution and so on. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013 Location: Melbourne
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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I'm struggling with this bit of the Guardian article...
Quote: | “black c**t”, a “ni**er” |
Except in the article only 'ni**er' is censored, the 'c' word is left untouched.
I swear, the world is losing it's mind. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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why do you all care.
He has a right to hold and share ANY view he wants. he is a private citizen and has a right to free speech. he isnt representing a country. He is just voicing the opinions of a private citizen. Isnt that what makes Australia "the free country"?
His views might be extreme to you. you might disagree with them. that is your choice. you could even state your disagreement (although it would be nice to hear your actual disagreement as opposed to saying "he is insane" - which is not an argument against his thoughts and opinions even though in the schoolyard, it usually is enough for the bullies!).
And by the way, the media are the ones who chose to give his views more oxygen than they gave yours.
It is a dangerous practice to allow only one view (your own) to be the only voice that is allowed to be heard. that happens in dictatorships and it isnt a place i want to go.
so why dont you all accept that hearing things that might annoy you or for which you might disagree with is part of the price you pay for being able to say and do nearly anything you want.
So let's hear why you think he's wrong and lay off the personal attacks.
Or not. afterall, its your right to do it. Its just not very persuasive to intelligent people like me! _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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/\ shame you spoiled it with the last 5 words! But great post E and so very true. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Big Dan wrote: | I have no doubt that H feels he was a victim of racism at Collingwood, and unless you are the man himself you are in no position to say otherwise.
Like wise, those that have been tarred as racist by their once team mate would feel that there was absolutely racist intent in their actions.
My question for H is: what do you want?
Do you want the club to be dismantled, every body sacked, made to come grovelling?
Do you want to go back and see if there has been real change, because from what Debbie Lovett has said, the invite has been there but you refuse to accept it.
Is it simply a case of Ed, Bucks & everyone else standing up and saying "yes, you're right - everything you said is true", regardless of whether it is, or isn't?
I for one do not claim any which way or how it must feel to be the victim of discrimination based on the colour of your skin. I do not expect any body who has been vilified to simply "suck it up". I do however struggle to take an individuals claims as being the whole truth when every time a differing opinion, or a total lack of fawning is applied, results in claims of discrimination, persecution and so on. |
Great post. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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think positive wrote: | / shame you spoiled it with the last 5 words! But great post E and so very true. | Are we still talking about couldn't he have tweeted 'Waleed Aly? |
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