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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^^^ If we'd taken the next Freeman and Scharenberg with those two picks, giving the two picks away for Treloar was, in substance, the same as giving GWS about pick 70 for him. On the other hand, if we'd taken the next Reid and Cloke, I agree that it would have been overs. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | We can nearly forget about landing Lever. We are at best 3rd in line for him.
Melbourne are heavily into him and rumours have it are prepared to give up a player and 1st round draft pick.
Next in line is Carlton who may be interested in trading Gibbs to land Lever which would suit both sides
We might be praying that he nominates us and then hope neither of the other clubs up there offers to blow us out of the water. We can't afford to get shafted again and be in a pissing contest like we ended up in the Treloar deal. As good as player he is and the upside 2 X 1st round draft picks was overs. |
We need to be creative here. Melbourne is the obvious candidate to secure Lever and as you say, it will take a first round pick and a player to make it happen. If Melbourne gets Lever they won't need either Watts or Weiderman. So why don't we get into a three way deal and offer Aish or Broomhead to Adelaide in return for Watts or Weiderman from Melbourne. Either Melbourne player would be an improvement over White and we keep our first round pick in the national draft to secure a gun KPF. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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P4S the point is 2 X 1st round picks is overs for any player who basically isn't the absolute best in his position.
We got into a pissing match with Richmond when we didn't need to. We could have kept our powder dry and gone to the draft with both those picks and who knows what we could have landed with them maybe a tall.
As for the Scharenberg Freeman draft picks at the time many hear me included liked them both.
Scharenberg was rated so very highly as a junior and my many experts one of the best 2 prospects in the draft. Who would have guessed he would do 2 knees.
Freeman still holds the sprint records at the draft combine and was exactly what we needed line bursting speed. Alas he has never been able to get on a senior afl field and likely never will.
Scharenberg has shown the past month he is likely to be the player we drafted. Yes it's still early days but at a minimum he's shown he's a great reader of play and in our side one of the better kicks.
Drafting for any club can be hit and miss.
You can get pick one and turn it into nothing or you can have pick 58 and land Dane Swan or pick 31 and find a Simon Black or pick 44 and land Rory Sloane or pick 29 and land Dayne Beams. You see having a top range draft pick doesn't guarantee you a gun sometimes super stars slip down the order for whatever reason
If you could land a Dane Swan every year in the draft for a 4th rounder you would be a team of stars |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Or, indeed, the Future Captain at a similar pic. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| I'm confident having pick six in the national draft will secure us the key forward we need, especially if Matt Rendall, who knows a thing or two about key forwards, gets to choose. The key on draft night is keeping the senior coach away from the event and leave the choices that are made to the experts, namely the recruitment staff, who spend the entire year studying the form of potential recruits. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Or, indeed, the Future Captain at a similar pic. |
Not exactly mate GWS used pick 13 on our future captain Taylor Adams so can't really compare that to Swan Beams etc.
At 13 he wasn't a steal but good value really especially the leadership he's shown since Pendles has been out injured.
The way the players gravitate towards him as co captain shows who they see as the captain in waiting when Pendles steps down
I think the leadership has helped his game he has certainly played a lot better since he's been co captain |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | P4S the point is 2 X 1st round picks is overs for any player who basically isn't the absolute best in his position.
We got into a pissing match with Richmond when we didn't need to. We could have kept our powder dry and gone to the draft with both those picks and who knows what we could have landed with them maybe a tall.
As for the Scharenberg Freeman draft picks at the time many hear me included liked them both.
Scharenberg was rated so very highly as a junior and my many experts one of the best 2 prospects in the draft. Who would have guessed he would do 2 knees.
Freeman still holds the sprint records at the draft combine and was exactly what we needed line bursting speed. Alas he has never been able to get on a senior afl field and likely never will.
Scharenberg has shown the past month he is likely to be the player we drafted. Yes it's still early days but at a minimum he's shown he's a great reader of play and in our side one of the better kicks.
Drafting for any club can be hit and miss.
You can get pick one and turn it into nothing or you can have pick 58 and land Dane Swan or pick 31 and find a Simon Black or pick 44 and land Rory Sloane or pick 29 and land Dayne Beams. You see having a top range draft pick doesn't guarantee you a gun sometimes super stars slip down the order for whatever reason
If you could land a Dane Swan every year in the draft for a 4th rounder you would be a team of stars |
Treloar is the best in his position. We did not pay overs for him imo. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | P4S the point is 2 X 1st round picks is overs for any player who basically isn't the absolute best in his position.
We got into a pissing match with Richmond when we didn't need to. We could have kept our powder dry and gone to the draft with both those picks and who knows what we could have landed with them maybe a tall.
As for the Scharenberg Freeman draft picks at the time many hear me included liked them both.
Scharenberg was rated so very highly as a junior and my many experts one of the best 2 prospects in the draft. Who would have guessed he would do 2 knees.
Freeman still holds the sprint records at the draft combine and was exactly what we needed line bursting speed. Alas he has never been able to get on a senior afl field and likely never will.
Scharenberg has shown the past month he is likely to be the player we drafted. Yes it's still early days but at a minimum he's shown he's a great reader of play and in our side one of the better kicks.
Drafting for any club can be hit and miss.
You can get pick one and turn it into nothing or you can have pick 58 and land Dane Swan or pick 31 and find a Simon Black or pick 44 and land Rory Sloane or pick 29 and land Dayne Beams. You see having a top range draft pick doesn't guarantee you a gun sometimes super stars slip down the order for whatever reason
If you could land a Dane Swan every year in the draft for a 4th rounder you would be a team of stars |
Treloar is the best in his position. We did not pay overs for him imo. |
He's not as good as Sloane, Dangerfield, Selwood, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Adams, Kennedy, Zorko, Shiel, Kelly, Martin, Crouch, Laird, Merrett, Fyfe, Ablett, at least. So, that makes him barely top 20. After all, he's only the 4th best midfielder at Collingwood, so how could he be the best in the AFL? |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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^^^^
Champion data ratings have him rated the 2nd best midfielder at Collingwood (behind Pendles) and 9th in the competition.
Collingwood midfielders ratings according to champion data are in order
Pendles (6th overall) Treloar (9th overall) Adams (16th overall) Wells (28th overall) Crisp (40th overall) Sidebottom (51st overall)
At the beginning of the season Pendles was rated 4th down 2 places, Trelaor 5th down 4 places, Adams 17th up 1 place, Wells 19th down 9 places Crisp 28th down 12 places & Sidebottom 47th down 4 places
Champion data is the gauge all judges use for rating players now as it has a scale of which players are judged against there own performances previously and given rating points based on that.
Our midfield (top 6 players) was rated in the preseason as the best according to champion data stats we had 6 inside the top 50 the only club to do so.
Since the beginning of the season only Adams has increased his ratings with champion data all other midfielders we had have dropped in the rankings.
We now have 5 inside the top 50 and Crisp will likely drop out now as he's spending the majority of the time off the HBF now.
GWS are the big improves as are Richmond.
Clubs like the swans west coast Fremantle Gold Coast Bulldogs have all dropped markedly over the course of the season
Make of the stats what you will but IMO the best 3 midfielders at Collingwood are our highest rated mids on champion data |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | ^^^^
Champion data ratings have him rated the 2nd best midfielder at Collingwood (behind Pendles) and 9th in the competition.
Collingwood midfielders ratings according to champion data are in order
Pendles (6th overall) Treloar (9th overall) Adams (16th overall) Wells (28th overall) Crisp (40th overall) Sidebottom (51st overall)
At the beginning of the season Pendles was rated 4th down 2 places, Trelaor 5th down 4 places, Adams 17th up 1 place, Wells 19th down 9 places Crisp 28th down 12 places & Sidebottom 47th down 4 places
Champion data is the gauge all judges use for rating players now as it has a scale of which players are judged against there own performances previously and given rating points based on that.
Our midfield (top 6 players) was rated in the preseason as the best according to champion data stats we had 6 inside the top 50 the only club to do so.
Since the beginning of the season only Adams has increased his ratings with champion data all other midfielders we had have dropped in the rankings.
We now have 5 inside the top 50 and Crisp will likely drop out now as he's spending the majority of the time off the HBF now.
GWS are the big improves as are Richmond.
Clubs like the swans west coast Fremantle Gold Coast Bulldogs have all dropped markedly over the course of the season
Make of the stats what you will but IMO the best 3 midfielders at Collingwood are our highest rated mids on champion data |
We all know that the Champion Data rankings are stupid. Stop worrying about counting things and focus on game-impact. The best midfielders at Collingwood this year are, taken in order, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Adams and Treloar. If Adams hit targets the way he did last weekend more consistently, he'd soon be at the top of the list. I'm not sure he has the skill. |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | ^^^^
Champion data ratings have him rated the 2nd best midfielder at Collingwood (behind Pendles) and 9th in the competition.
Collingwood midfielders ratings according to champion data are in order
Pendles (6th overall) Treloar (9th overall) Adams (16th overall) Wells (28th overall) Crisp (40th overall) Sidebottom (51st overall)
At the beginning of the season Pendles was rated 4th down 2 places, Trelaor 5th down 4 places, Adams 17th up 1 place, Wells 19th down 9 places Crisp 28th down 12 places & Sidebottom 47th down 4 places
Champion data is the gauge all judges use for rating players now as it has a scale of which players are judged against there own performances previously and given rating points based on that.
Our midfield (top 6 players) was rated in the preseason as the best according to champion data stats we had 6 inside the top 50 the only club to do so.
Since the beginning of the season only Adams has increased his ratings with champion data all other midfielders we had have dropped in the rankings.
We now have 5 inside the top 50 and Crisp will likely drop out now as he's spending the majority of the time off the HBF now.
GWS are the big improves as are Richmond.
Clubs like the swans west coast Fremantle Gold Coast Bulldogs have all dropped markedly over the course of the season
Make of the stats what you will but IMO the best 3 midfielders at Collingwood are our highest rated mids on champion data |
That makes for interesting reading.It's also noteworthy that champion data has Sidebottom as the 51st best midfielder.That's about where I would have him too. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Thereby indicating that you may know nothing about the game. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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P4S champion data is a complex system and I wouldn't for a minute try to explain how they extract information and then allocate ranking points but I do know it encompasses every aspect of the game from clearances to goals to tackles to 1%ers etc.
How accurate it is is debatable
But IMO Pendles is our best player by the length of the Flemington straight followed by Treloar Adams Sidey (you can argue the order of those 3 on any given day each could be second third or forth behind Pendles) I wouldn't have Wells or Crisp ahead of any of the other 4
It's all subjective really as we all have players we prefer and those we don't rate as highly that's a personal opinion.
Just for the record champion data have this as there top 10 midfielders
Patrick Dangerfield
Dustin Martin
Tom Mitchell
Josh Kelly
Rory Sloane
Scott Pendlebury
Josh Kennedy
Tom Rockliff
Adam Treloar
Joel Selwood |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What is your credit card number? |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Thereby indicating that you may know nothing about the game. |
Did you ever think it might be you?You're the one who always seems to be at odds with everyone else about certain players.
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