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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:25 am
Post subject: ImmigrationReply with quote

With Australia's population having ticked over just 25 million people on Tuesday night, the debate about immigration in this country has intensified. There's strong sentiment from the electorate that immigration numbers to be reduced.

In 2002, the then Immigration Minister, Phillip Ruddock projected if the annual immigration numbers of the time, which were 93,000 a year remained indefinite, Australia wouldn't reach 25 million people until 2050, and later Ruddock increased the numbers to such a rate so that Australia would be on track to reach 25 million in 2040, and yet now the number has already been reached 22 years earlier than expected. If the current immigration numbers are not reduced, it is projected that Australia will have a population of 38 million in 2050.

With the struggles of keeping up with infrastructure, rising house prices, stagnant wages, congestion et al and the concern that new migrants are not dispersing and only settling in the two big cities (Sydney and Melbourne), can Australia afford to sustain the current immigration numbers it has right now?

The political class has tried to ignore this issue for a long time, but its gaining momentum amongst the electorate.

Amongst the G12 nations, Australia has experienced the largest population growth since 2000.


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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:11 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

The immigration rate has reduced.

I think Tannin summed it up well (immigration) a while ago but bugger me (met of c) co I be stuffed trying to find it.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:23 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but does it need to be reduced further?
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What'sinaname 



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: In the cloud

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:26 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Needs to be halved at the very least.
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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:37 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if we start by kicking out all the fringe rightists to make more room for actual humans, that would be a step in the correct direction.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:48 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
I think if we start by kicking out all the fringe rightists to make more room for actual humans, that would be a step in the correct direction.

Sure, a civil war always makes room. You know it’s the responsible solution.

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:55 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Jezza and his half a dozen or so mates are hardly the stuff of civil war - but I do appreciate that you think that his extreme views are mainstream, rather than extreme-fringe paranoid delusions.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:06 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
Jezza and his half a dozen or so mates are hardly the stuff of civil war - but I do appreciate that you think that his extreme views are mainstream, rather than extreme-fringe paranoid delusions.


I wasn’t thinking of their position : only that your intolerance above might not work out so well if the other side were to adopt it.

If you think Jezza is extreme because he questions migration numbers, you’re in parody territory.

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:08 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Mugwump wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
Jezza and his half a dozen or so mates are hardly the stuff of civil war - but I do appreciate that you think that his extreme views are mainstream, rather than extreme-fringe paranoid delusions.


I wasn’t thinking of their position : only that your intolerance above might not work out so well if the other side were to adopt it.

If you think Jezza is extreme because he questions migration numbers, you’re in parody territory.

If you think that's the most extreme view Jezza has posted in VPT, you haven't been paying attention.
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:15 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Immigration is not a simple issue.

On one hand we have an ageing population population so with zero immigration the pool of taxpayers reduces along with the governments ability to pay for services.

On the other hand, population growth and urban sprawl is already happening faster than the services required. There's also the matter of land. Australia is a big joint but only a very small portion of it is arable land. The urban sprawl is rapidly converting that portion of land that was being used to feed us, into concrete.

Infrastructure planning and population growth may be two different topics but they're closely inter-related so you can't address one without the other.

Personally I think population growth needs to be checked, it can't be allowed to continue at the current rate, but we need to look closely at the consequences of that and how to deal with them.

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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:21 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
Jezza and his half a dozen or so mates are hardly the stuff of civil war - but I do appreciate that you think that his extreme views are mainstream, rather than extreme-fringe paranoid delusions.


https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/2018-lowy-institute-poll

"There has been a sharp spike in anti-immigration sentiment.
For the first time in Lowy Institute polling, a majority (54%, a 14-point rise from 2017) of Australians say the ‘total number of migrants coming to Australia each year’ is too high."

Yep, Jezza and his half a dozen or so mates.
( and 13.5 million other people )
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:41 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
...
If you think Jezza is extreme because he questions migration numbers, you’re in parody territory.

If you think that's the most extreme view Jezza has posted in VPT, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the most extreme view Jezza's posted? (I can't help but be curious...)
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^

He suggested that Dick the Butcher in Henry IV was correct?

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:22 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

While I definitely think we should increase our refugee intake, I’m not sure where I stand on skilled migration levels. We know high levels of migration are generally good for the economy, but that public infrastructure is struggling to keep up with population growth. So the answer to the question of whether we need to get better at infrastructure or try to control population levels seems unclear to me; beyond those discussions, what I’d like to see is a coherent argument as to why either a “Small Australia” or “Big Australia” is desirable. And if we’re to pursue the former aim, how would that actually work in practice (i.e. who gets turned away at the door, or what extra hoops have to be jumped through, presuming that current migration levels are mostly fuelled by demand)?

Can anyone point to successful examples – in terms of economics and standard of living – of countries dramatically reducing migration levels?

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

K wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
...
If you think Jezza is extreme because he questions migration numbers, you’re in parody territory.

If you think that's the most extreme view Jezza has posted in VPT, you haven't been paying attention.

What is the most extreme view Jezza's posted? (I can't help but be curious...)


I’m curious as well. Jezza is as polite and considerate as any poster on the board, I’d have thought.

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