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Transgender athletes back on the agenda

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:58 am
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At least the Queensland AWFL have some common sense....

Transgender Policy
The legislations which apply to this policy are contained in the Commonwealth legislation entitled, ‘Sex Discrimination Act 1984’ and ‘Queensland Anti-Discrimination Act 1991’.
The regulation is that, whether or not a person is a recognised transgender person (that is, whether or not the person has altered their genitals or gender characteristics so that the person will be identified as a person of the opposite sex), it is not unlawful to prevent such a person playing in a competition which is only available to persons of the opposite sex and where the strength, stamina or physique of the person is relevant to participation in the activity.
There is little doubt that a transgender female would have a significant performance advantage in playing football as a result of previously being a male.
To be eligible to play in the AFL Queensland Women’s competition the player must be female, which would not include a gender re-assigned person.

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:15 am
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David wrote:
I must have an unusually masochistic streak this morning because I actually clicked through to the article from that scummy website and found this as one of their examples of political correctness gone mad:

Quote:
Wrestling: Transgender wins high-school girls tournament

Mack Beggs, 17, was born a girl and reportedly began identifying as a boy at the age of 3. Though Beggs underwent testosterone treatments for more than a year and had the muscle mass of a teenage boy, Beggs competed and took first place in the University Interscholastic League state girls’ championship on Feb. 25, 2016.

“If he has been taking hormones, or steroids, he should be wrestling boys,” youth counselor Melissa Roush told CNN.


Think about that one for a moment: it's unfair for a transgender boy (born female) to compete with girls because his hormone replacement therapy treatments have apparently given him an advantage; but a transgender woman who has also been through hormone replacement therapy treatments (having, presumably, the opposite effect) is considered to be just another 'man' competing against women. Seems trans people can't win either way.

(Also note how this is the only example in the article where they avoid misgendering – because it might undermine their argument if they referred to this boy as 'she'.)

I suspect the end goal of the kind of people who write articles like this is not really about sporting integrity. It's about making transgender people disappear from public life altogether.


You say that... then totally discard what the women competitors had to say in the article;



Weightlifter Deborah Acason, from the Australian Weightlifting Federation, told 1 News Now she’s concerned about the fairness of Hubbard competing in the women’s division.

“We all deserve to be on an even playing field,” Acason said. “It’s difficult when you believe that you’re not. If it’s not even, why are we doing the sport?”


Eagle River junior Peyton Young, also a runner, said: “I don’t know what’s politically correct to say, but in my opinion, your gender is what you’re born with. It’s the DNA. Genetically, a guy has more muscle mass than a girl, and if he’s racing against a girl, he may have an advantage.”



“If he has been taking hormones, or steroids, he should be wrestling boys,” youth counselor Melissa Roush told CNN.

Dr. Brandon Mines, assistant professor at Emory University’s Department of Orthopedics, agreed with Roush’s statement.

“Testosterone and anabolic steroids are in the same family and have the effect of increasing muscle mass and strength gains,” Mines told CNN.





Brents told WHOA-TV, “I’ve never felt so overpowered in my life.”

“I’ve fought a lot of women and have never felt the strength that I felt in a fight as I did that night,” she said. “I can’t answer whether it’s because she was born a man or not, because I’m not a doctor. I can only say I’ve never felt so overpowered in my life, and I am an abnormally strong female in my own right.”

Brents said Fox’s “grip was different.”

“I could usually move around in the clinch against … females but couldn’t move at all in Fox’s clinch



Just have a look at the pic on the following sport Rolling Eyes

Gabrielle Ludwig, 50, who was born Robert, joined the women’s basketball team at Mission College in Santa Clara, California, in 2012.

Ludwig is 6 feet, 6 inches tall and weighs 220 pounds.

On Nov. 30, 2012, a judge awarded Ludwig a new birth certificate designating him a “female.”




McGregor said he no longer produces testosterone and has high levels of estrogen.

“I know there might be some out there who would say, ‘That’s just an old bloke in a dress,’ but I would argue that any physical advantages I may have had as a born male are offset by my age and the changes to my body,” McGregor said.

Ohhh, so coz you're old your physical dominance has waned, to a now acceptable level, to belt girls around the park Rolling Eyes



Handball Australia ruled that he couldn’t join the women’s team in a tournament. The official reason was that he hadn’t completed a full year of hormone treatment. But sources told the paper that Mouncey’s six-foot-two-inch stature posed a big problem.

“She’s still a 6-foot, 2-inch female and is still 100kg [220 pounds] or so and larger than everyone else with a physical advantage and a certain level of muscle mass … we have to protect the other players,” the source told the Telegraph.

“It would not be an issue six months down the line as she will have met IOC guidelines, but the fact Hannah was three weeks out of the 12-month IOC guideline, and no one had dealt with a transgender player in a contact sport before, meant no precedent was set. No one was prepared to break the rules.”

Board members reportedly feared they would not be insured if Mouncey injured a female player.

“Being able to play as a woman for the first time after transitioning would have meant feeling normal again,” Mouncey told the Telegraph. “In six months, I’ll still be 6 foot 2 inches and big, and nothing will have changed. Anyone who thinks I have an unfair advantage is wrong. Being tall means I have extra weight to carry and can’t run as fast as the girls.”

That must be why Bolt is so fast hey, he's only ...... huh? 6'5" Laughing




Transgender pro-golfer Mianne Bagger

In 2004, pro-golfer Mianne Bagger, born a male, became the first transgender woman to play in a professional golf tournament.

“That was huge,” Bagger told ABC News correspondent Jay Schadler of her chance to play in the 2004 Women’s Australian Open. “It’s like I get there and I’m on the course side of the ropes. I’m here. I’m playing. It was like, wow!”

Bagger claims his physical advantages from being born male are now gone, since he took female hormones.

“The physical changes are, you lose muscle mass and testosterone,” Bagger said.

“You lose overall strength. … I certainly wouldn’t be out there playing if I felt I had an unfair advantage.”

No, no..... of course you wouldn't Confused

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:36 am
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It's difficult enough to get girls into sport these days, take it to the bank that having transgender athletes competing as women will chase even more away.

You can frame your arguments however you like, in the end it's just facile debate point scoring to push an agenda. A eunuch is not a woman, and you can dance around the issue to pander to people's feelings as much as you like.

Live and let live and all that, but not at the expense of others. I'm with Greer and the RadFems on this one (never thought I'd ever be saying those words).

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:06 pm
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Wokko wrote:




Live and let live and all that, but not at the expense of others.


i agree with your whole post, but this line is the one that really relates to the thread completely in my opinion.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:32 pm
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But (effectively) banning transgender people from competing in sport does come at a cost – and one that I think is ultimately far greater than the cost to cis women who have to share their competitions with the odd trans woman (who may or may not be a difficult opponent). That's not semantics, it's about real-world consequences. Same goes for toilets and change rooms: so long as parts of the world remain gender segregated, forcing transgender people into categories to which they no longer legally or psychologically belong is wrong, and ends up potentially giving them no place at all to be.
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:47 pm
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Quote:
and one that I think is ultimately far greater than the cost to cis women


"As a man, let me quantify how much this impacts upon women"
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:18 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Quote:
and one that I think is ultimately far greater than the cost to cis women


"As a man, let me quantify how much this impacts upon women"


yup!!

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:15 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Quote:
and one that I think is ultimately far greater than the cost to cis women


"As a man, let me quantify how much this impacts upon women"


I hope you see the irony of all of the armchair experts on here opining on what trans people are like and how they should live their lives.

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stui magpie 

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:27 pm
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^

And you're not one of them?

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:38 pm
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No, me too. (I should really have pointed out that most of the people commenting in this thread are men, too!)

Anyway, we're pretty much all armchair experts on here. Carry on.

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stui magpie 

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:44 pm
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Well people who aren't gay are entitled to voice an opinion on same sex marriage, what's the difference?

The majority makes rules/law for the all, the minority don't get to make rules for themselves, let alone rules that impact others.

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Wokko Pisces

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:49 pm
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David wrote:
No, me too. (I should really have pointed out that most of the people commenting in this thread are men, too!)

Anyway, we're pretty much all armchair experts on here. Carry on.


Did you just assume my gender?

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:53 pm
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Hey, I did say most. Wink
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stui magpie 

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:42 pm
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So Hannah Mouncey, the transgender athlete, has been prevented from being drafted in the AFLW because "the AFL ruled her physical disparity is a significant advantage for the former national handballer."

She is however clear to play for Ainslie in their womens competition. Confused

Quote:
The AFL said in a statement that Mouncey would have had an “unreasonable advantage” over other AFLW players.

“In this circumstance, the AFL has made a decision that the physical disparity between Hannah and other AFLW players is significant, in that it would have an effect on the AFLW competition and give rise to an unreasonable advantage.

“The subcommittee’s decision took into account the stage of maturity of the AFLW competition, its current player cohort and Hannah’s individual circumstances.

“This decision solely relates to Hannah’s nomination for the 2018 AFLW draft and participation in the 2018 AFLW competition.”


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/transgender-footballer-hannah-mouncey-waits-on-aflw-draft-call/news-story/123a463e71aa3c4b9bbd634724ce8f75

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thesoretoothsayer 



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:17 pm
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I think it's wise that the AFL tread carefully here. However, you do feel sorry for Hannah. She, after all, has done nothing wrong.

But, not to worry.
I've sure the Human Rights Commission or some other govt. body will ensure that the AFL assumes the "correct" position on transgender athletes by next year's draft.
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