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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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| ^ mission accomplished. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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What, trolling me? Or did you have some other objective in mind?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | ^ I think that's a deeply unfair (and, dare I say it, homophobic) presumption. As it happens, I did some googling out of curiosity and found an old blog that one of the mothers had written from around the time when she was trying to conceive a child up to a couple of years into early parenthood. I obviously don't have the time or interest to go through all of it, but from the couple of posts I've read she speaks candidly and honestly about the pride and excitement she feels about the boy she is going to give birth to, and there's no hint that I can detect of an agenda to suppress his maleness. Having read that, your grotesque caricature just seems even more heartless and divorced from reality.
Of course, different parents will react in different ways to their child expressing ambivalence about their gender, and I do sometimes wonder if some parents may attach too much weight to early declarations of gender identity (or lack thereof). But the fact is that some children do, from a very early age, express serious discomfort with the gender role that is placed upon them. Sometimes it can be reasonably dismissed as a whim, and I'd be the last to advise parents to jump at the first sign of gender dysphoria and put their child on hormone treatments; but, when this goes on for years, then a parent is left with the choice to either take it seriously and work to accommodate the child's preferences, or else to suppress them and potentially make them miserable in the process. From my observation, parents – no matter how politically conservative or uneducated about trans or non-binary stuff they may be to begin with – usually end up being supportive in the long run, because they love their child and understand that these preferences won't simply go away. By the same token, automatically treating a same-sex couple as the deliberate architects of their child's gender questioning – because, you know, that's just the kind of nefarious thing gay parents are supposed to do, or something – is allowing prejudice to shape your response to this. |
Fair call. I still don't understand it but I don't disagree with you here.
When I first clicked on the article, my thought was "A 3 year old with Gender Dysphoria is like a Vegan cat, you know who's making the decisions" which sort of aligns with TSTS caricature, but when I read the article it seemed legit that the kid wasn't coerced.
How a 3 year old is capable of making decisions about complex things like Gender Identity with no lived experience to work with when most kids that age are focused on not shitting their pants has got me farked, but I'll take the article on face value. I posted it because I found it interesting, it was a viewpoint I hadn't encountered.
I raised a son and a daughter. The only gender role I reinforced was that men didn't hit women. Otherwise, I went with what they were interested in. Despite being 3 months prem and 2 years younger, the daughter had more physical coordination than the son at a young age, so I actively encouraged competition between them, set up an obstacle course in the back yard and they both joined in the street games with the other kids playing roller hockey, footy and cricket. My daughter was the only girl in the street who competed against the boys but was also aware of her femininity and could switch from tom boy to princess in the bat of an eye when it suited her.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yeah – like you, I have to say my preference as a parent is definitely to provide a wide range of options and not to give the impression that being a boy = doing x and being a girl = doing y, and I do wonder how much dysphoria can be created or exacerbated by exposure to overly rigid gender ideas (I might be loath to admit it, but I do sometimes have sympathy for some TERF ideas, i.e. why can’t you be both your birth sex and dress/look however you like? But I understand that, for a lot of transgender people, that’s not enough). In any case, if my son did turn out to identify as transgender or non-binary, then I hope I would be able to be supportive of that and, like the parents in the article, respect my child’s mode of identification.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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If I was living it, I might understand it, but yeah. As a parent, your first priority is for your kids to be happy and well adjusted. Whatever else, you work around.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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RIP woman’s sport and the Olympics, what a $$%^%%$ joke. And no I’m not phobic at all, I feel disgusted for all the woman who worked so $$%^%%$ hard for all the years to get there, to be beaten by a male body. She may be a She now but for at least 18 years she was a he, with male hormones, male muscles and bones, which are totally different from the female version.
The solution? Compete before you go through the change, ordont compete, or have their own section.
This is an absolute farce.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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A bit of an overreaction to one athlete competing in one weightlifting division – a sport that already divides competitors up into weight categories – don’t you think?
I seriously wonder how many people getting violins over this could name a single women’s Olympic weightlifter (let alone any in the super heavyweight category who are supposedly disadvantaged as a result of this woman being permitted to compete).
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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The world transexual beach volleyball comp is (subject to Covid) played here every year. There is not a woman alive who can compete. They tried once and never got a set. They have their own games. Leave it as is. You are going to have transgenders winning weightlifting comps by breaking world records by 50 KG,
As an aside what if say a younger version of Dean Laidley played in the womens comp and ran through about 5 women and ruined careers/hobbies etc.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I agree, it would be terrible if that hysterical scenario you just made up came to pass, unlike in the real world where no sanctions exist for rough play, all transgender athletes are built like Rocky Balboa, AFLW players never get injured, male AFL players don’t get their jaws broken by rampaging Adelaide Crows veterans and all sporting injuries are permanent.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | A bit of an overreaction to one athlete competing in one weightlifting division – a sport that already divides competitors up into weight categories – don’t you think?
I seriously wonder how many people getting violins over this could name a single women’s Olympic weightlifter (let alone any in the super heavyweight category who are supposedly disadvantaged as a result of this woman being permitted to compete). |
NO i dont agree at all.
and its not just me:
| Quote: | She has been in the headlines around the world in the past few days after strong comments by Tamsyn Lewis, the Australian former middle-distance runner, and the high-profile British broadcaster Piers Morgan.
Morgan, who has seven million social media followers, said Hubbard’s advantage over her rivals, because of her previous life as a male, was “insane”.
He said, “Women’s rights to basic fairness and equality are getting destroyed at the altar of political correctness.
“Trans women born with biological male bodies have a massive physical advantage against women born with female bodies in any sport where power and strength are significant factors.
“This shouldn't be a contentious claim, it's just a rather obvious fact.”
Lewis, 41, a triple Olympian and three times a Commonwealth Games relay gold medallist, said, “If you've grown up a male and had testosterone your bone structure is different to the female, your upper body strength is going to remain, you've got greater lung capacity, a larger heart size, and there's too many unknowns about how much going through puberty and being born a male is going to affect your result.
“If we don't take a stand, what's going to happen to the female category of sport?” |
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1091321/weightlifters-olympic-qualification
wait there's more, Martina Navratilova, perhaps the greatest ever female tennis player, and a well known Gay person,
| Quote: | | Tennis legend Martina Navratilova, who in 1981 risked backlash from fans and sponsors when she came out as a lesbian while at the height of her career, offended many in the LGBTQ community with some of her comments on the subject. She wrote a piece in the Sunday Times this year, saying, “It’s insane and it’s cheating” and once tweeted (and deleted), “You can’t just proclaim yourself a female and be able to compete against women. There must be some standards, and having a penis and competing as a woman would not fit that standard.” She later apologized for saying transgender athletes are cheating, noting that “all I am trying to do is to make sure girls and women who were born female are competing on as level a playing field as possible within their sport." |
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/16/stripped-womens-records-transgender-powerlifter-asks-where-do-we-draw-line/
and the best aussie cant compete because, wait for it :
| Quote: | Eileen Cikamatana, the former Fijian who now competes for Australia, made a total of 250kg in the women’s 81kg in Canberra.
It was the fourth time in her four international competitions as an Australian that Cikamatana lifted 250kg or more.
The 20-year-old cannot qualify for Tokyo 2020 because of her nationality switch. |
but changing gender is aok!
<quote tags added – please remember to do this for pasted text from the internet. Thanks, David for BBMods.>
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Hope the other female weightlifters boycott the event.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Jezza wrote: | | Hope the other female weightlifters boycott the event. |
so do i
and i hope the men do too in solidarity!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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On that last one, I totally agree that Olympic qualification criteria are byzantine and unfair, and I think it’s pretty weird that an organisation supposedly dedicated to athletic excellence and fair play refuses to allow competitors based on national origin. For me that sounds like less reason to be upset by this ruling, not more, but then you all know what I think of the Olympics anyway.
As the articles above show, there are primarily two kinds of people who tend to express opprobrium over transgender participation in women’s sport: sportswomen who feel that they’re getting a raw deal; and professional outrage merchants like Piers Morgan and those who share his politics, who have never given a toss about women’s sport but nonetheless like to act as if this is now the most pressing issue on Earth. I have a little more sympathy for the first group, but I suspect that the gripers are getting outsized publicity compared to the many cis sportswomen who are fully supportive of playing with and against trans female participants (speaking of solidarity!) – and I think that remains the only justifiable response for those who are not transphobes and in denial of trans women’s gender identities.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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what the **** is a cis sportswoman? another gender i dont know?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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cis = not trans.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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