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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Did question initially but then realised we just lost a similar aged player who
if not for horrific accident may well have been playing this year --Dane Swan
So on for one veteran
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| think positive wrote: | | The Weed wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Great pick up if we were shooting for a flag, but the wins we get with him now are only costing draft pick position and how many years do we think we'll get from him? |
wot i just said in the after game thread! spot on |
'nah sorry, 1 player is not a match winner, need more stats than that'
Cant have it both ways TP, either he is not a match winner or he is not costing us draft picks with us winning when he is playing. |
dont want it both ways, wot i said above doesnt make him a match winner, he never was and never will be an ablett or a dangerfield, but if we were shooting for a flag, then he would be a handy experienced player to have, |
he might not be the best player in the AFL, but he is a matchwinner and he is just behind them. The guy routinely finished high in the brownlow and it is just ignorant to write off a player because he doesn't meet the Dangerfield standard.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | It's worth observing, respectfully, that one of the wins was a good game from him against Geelong, whereas the other 4 were all against cellar-dwellers (Hawthorn, Brisbane, Fremantle and Gold Coast). Of course, he barely touched the ball in the Freo game, because he was injured.
He's a fine footballer but it's probably just happenstance that he played in some wins. |
except that without him, the Hawks cruised to vicotry against us the second time. Look, say what you want, but when he is part of the build up, it seems like we are far more likely to score a goal than when he is not. DeGoey is the same (which is really exciting).
Watch the Gold Coast games carefully and see just how many times we get an easy shot on goal AFTER DeGoey or Wells are involved in a passage of play.
FWIW, when Maynard doesn't F$ck it up, his good touches lead to easy shots on goal as well!
its the same on the receiving end. When we kick to Elliot of Faz (or DeGoey), we look much more likely to score than when the ball is kicked to nearly everyone else.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| E wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | The Weed wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Great pick up if we were shooting for a flag, but the wins we get with him now are only costing draft pick position and how many years do we think we'll get from him? |
wot i just said in the after game thread! spot on |
'nah sorry, 1 player is not a match winner, need more stats than that'
Cant have it both ways TP, either he is not a match winner or he is not costing us draft picks with us winning when he is playing. |
dont want it both ways, wot i said above doesnt make him a match winner, he never was and never will be an ablett or a dangerfield, but if we were shooting for a flag, then he would be a handy experienced player to have, |
he might not be the best player in the AFL, but he is a matchwinner and he is just behind them. The guy routinely finished high in the brownlow and it is just ignorant to write off a player because he doesn't meet the Dangerfield standard. |
Fair enough, but I still don't think it was good recruiting with where we are at. In less you really believe we werego it to challenge for the flagthis year, I can see the point above about replacing Swan. However, all the way from drafttime the lack of a bona Fida genuine replacement for Cloke or Brown has worried me, and proved right. Expecting a team of midfielders to hard run the entire game and do the scoring too, against teams with big bodies in defence is setting yourself up for some bloody hard work. Especially when the skill level is not there. We have some great forwards, Faz, jaimie, hopefully Moore will be the superstar we all expect, but right now we lack muscle, height and strength. That's why I don't think there is a place for Cox long term. Nothing wrong with Wells, if you are prepared to accept lost games through injury, asfor the Hawks, not comparable this year in my mind, because they are not contending either. We have had several honerable losses this year that mean more than beating the Hawks earlier this year. The bulldog game for instance. We pushed them all the way.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| No problem at all recruiting Wells when we're contending for a premiership. Pointless pick up when we're down the bottom of the ladder. Same with Dunn. Both players add to the list when we're up near the top and pointless when we're near the bottom when we should be rebuilding the list. But to be fair to our recruitment people they honestly believed we were better than we are currently displaying and thus were justified in making these calls. |
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | No problem at all recruiting Wells when we're contending for a premiership. Pointless pick up when we're down the bottom of the ladder. Same with Dunn. Both players add to the list when we're up near the top and pointless when we're near the bottom when we should be rebuilding the list. But to be fair to our recruitment people they honestly believed we were better than we are currently displaying and thus were justified in making these calls. |
Agree, never once have I argued he is not a great player. He is injured and he is 32.....yes he has talent to burn ....he also has maybe a season left in him...fly back up the ladder next year and contend for top four...and Wells play 15 to 20 matches for the year. I might actually argue he was a worthy pick up......as their is a very low chance of this happening ...he will have to be rated a fail.
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"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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Invigoration
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | No problem at all recruiting Wells when we're contending for a premiership. Pointless pick up when we're down the bottom of the ladder. Same with Dunn. Both players add to the list when we're up near the top and pointless when we're near the bottom when we should be rebuilding the list. But to be fair to our recruitment people they honestly believed we were better than we are currently displaying and thus were justified in making these calls. |
Dunn's a great pick up and was worth recruiting regardless of where we stood on the whole as a club.
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Brown re his GF omission:
"Its not about me & it never has been. Its about the team & its about Collingwood & its about the 22 other blokes out there on the park. Thats all that matters to me" |
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes
Joined: 09 May 2017
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Many of the same posters that now criticise the recruitment of Wells, Dunn etc as we are not in the premiership window and instead advise that we should play the kids are the same ones bitching and moaning that we haven't played finals in just four years. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Collingwood supporters are now too impatient to do a traditional rebuild through the draft a la Brisbane and Carlton.
The club appears to want to rebuild without getting too close to the bottom of the ladder. Look at the angst and vitriol directed at the club given we are 14th on the ladder and then imagine how much worse it would be if we were 18th playing the kids. You can't argue both sides of the fence. Either your prepared to be patient while we rebuild or you keep trying to recruit players that help us in the short term while our many younger players mature and get better.
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People forget that our last premiership was only 2010 and rebuilds take some time. 2018 we play finals again. |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote: | Many of the same posters that now criticise the recruitment of Wells, Dunn etc as we are not in the premiership window and instead advise that we should play the kids are the same ones bitching and moaning that we haven't played finals in just four years. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Collingwood supporters are now too impatient to do a traditional rebuild through the draft a la Brisbane and Carlton.
The club appears to want to rebuild without getting too close to the bottom of the ladder. Look at the angst and vitriol directed at the club given we are 14th on the ladder and then imagine how much worse it would be if we were 18th playing the kids. You can't argue both sides of the fence. Either your prepared to be patient while we rebuild or you keep trying to recruit players that help us in the short term while our many younger players mature and get better. |
The only difference between 14th and 18th is 18th is far better because we get pick 1! 6 years of decline has been just accepted by this club, kidding itself that it can still play finals (Buckley still thinks this crap team can make it?) Lynden Dunn was picked in 3 AFL games last year in a club that did not make the finals? Why? What a waste of space. Wells 32 and injured why? It is a poor attempt to save Buckley and no thought given to this club. A full clean out is required Now. The club needs to stop pretending they are any good, stop making excuses and start planning for the future. It's going to take years, many years to recover from this most damaging era. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| think positive wrote: | | E wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | The Weed wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Great pick up if we were shooting for a flag, but the wins we get with him now are only costing draft pick position and how many years do we think we'll get from him? |
wot i just said in the after game thread! spot on |
'nah sorry, 1 player is not a match winner, need more stats than that'
Cant have it both ways TP, either he is not a match winner or he is not costing us draft picks with us winning when he is playing. |
dont want it both ways, wot i said above doesnt make him a match winner, he never was and never will be an ablett or a dangerfield, but if we were shooting for a flag, then he would be a handy experienced player to have, |
he might not be the best player in the AFL, but he is a matchwinner and he is just behind them. The guy routinely finished high in the brownlow and it is just ignorant to write off a player because he doesn't meet the Dangerfield standard. |
Fair enough, but I still don't think it was good recruiting with where we are at. In less you really believe we werego it to challenge for the flagthis year, I can see the point above about replacing Swan. However, all the way from drafttime the lack of a bona Fida genuine replacement for Cloke or Brown has worried me, and proved right. Expecting a team of midfielders to hard run the entire game and do the scoring too, against teams with big bodies in defence is setting yourself up for some bloody hard work. Especially when the skill level is not there. We have some great forwards, Faz, jaimie, hopefully Moore will be the superstar we all expect, but right now we lack muscle, height and strength. That's why I don't think there is a place for Cox long term. Nothing wrong with Wells, if you are prepared to accept lost games through injury, asfor the Hawks, not comparable this year in my mind, because they are not contending either. We have had several honerable losses this year that mean more than beating the Hawks earlier this year. The bulldog game for instance. We pushed them all the way. |
I think EVERYONE expected us to compete for a finals spot this year. If not, why are we all so angry that we are not? certainly it looked to me that the additions of hoskin-elliot, Mayne, Wells, Schade and Dunn as well as the return of Scharenberg, Elliot, Reid and Ramsey would push us over the top.
Judging in hindsight that we were not finals material should not change the fact that his recruiting was intended to improve a strong finals contender.
Why we are not a finals contender is the discussion we should be having, rather than whether recruiting wells was a mistake.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Wells is a gun!
Great pick up by the club and still has plenty to offer, especially in 2018.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| E mentioned one of our pickups in Hoskin-Elliot in context with the others. I think this guy has fallen under the radar because of the higher profile of Wells and hasn't been given the credit he deserves. He's played every game. He reads the play beautifully and usually chooses the best option with the ball. He's been played all over the field because of our weaknesses in both the back half and the forward half and has had to get used to teammates who aren't good at delivering the ball to him. Yet people have criticised him for not being tough enough. That's not the sort of player he is. Aish could be on borrowed time but this guy (Hoskin-Elliot) could be with us for the next 10 years. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I have no issue with him. He adds class and finish. When he plays we generally do well.
Add Varcoe now and Kirby next year we have some real talent.
Hopefully, if we do draft more aboriginal kids, the environment will be that more encouraging / supportive by having a few players in the squad (& McCarthy) rather than having to do it solo so so speak.
While I know it's not the inherent reason for drafting Wells (or the thread ) it's an interesting derivative benefit.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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BBHS
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine
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Don't have an issue with it. Great player, great for the young blokes to emulate. Also a pleasure to watch him play.
Dunn pickup was also a great call apparently on very low $$$ as well.
Mayne - We should have kept Gault |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Adam Treloar 3 Votes wrote: | Many of the same posters that now criticise the recruitment of Wells, Dunn etc as we are not in the premiership window and instead advise that we should play the kids are the same ones bitching and moaning that we haven't played finals in just four years. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Collingwood supporters are now too impatient to do a traditional rebuild through the draft a la Brisbane and Carlton.
The club appears to want to rebuild without getting too close to the bottom of the ladder. Look at the angst and vitriol directed at the club given we are 14th on the ladder and then imagine how much worse it would be if we were 18th playing the kids. You can't argue both sides of the fence. Either your prepared to be patient while we rebuild or you keep trying to recruit players that help us in the short term while our many younger players mature and get better. |
We should have bottomed out a couple of years ago, instead they have continued to slide and slide whilst topping up the list trying to return to finals. If Buckleys ego wasn't so big and he dropped down for a couple of years we would be pushing back up by now, but no, he is just a shit coach and Wells is typical of his short sighted recruiting. |
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