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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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[quote="uncanny"] | stoliboy wrote: | This is a great article going year by year the drafting by the Pies. Also makes some good points on Collingwood's drafting and Buckley's coaching.
List management the coach-killer at Collingwood
By Cameron Rose, 11 Jul 2017
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/07/11/list-management-coach-killer-collingwood/
I was going to cite this article but you beat me to it Stoliboy.
It backs up what was highlighted in several points in this thread including several of the ten reasons listed in the thread. The best coach in the world still needs the cattle. That's our main problem. Our list is not good enough. A bit of bad luck with some of the picks (Freeman and Shazza so far) but overall too much emphasis on the same sort of player. Midfielders. Half back flankers. Good triers but don't hurt the opposition enough. Also too many busts or at best, good ordinary players as free agents. Nathan has been part of that decision making. He's got to live with the consequence that they are not getting the results that we are after. It's more about this than coaching ability. It tells me it's time for a new coach and list management team. |
The other thing that may have been missed is the overall selection policy, not just the propensity to play midfielders in the 22. Dunn for whatever reason couldn't get a game in the side until round 7. Schade was preferred to Dunn even though it was glaringly obvious to anybody observing the preseason training sessions that Dunn is a better defender than Schade. When Dunn finally got his chance he has proved to be the second best defender in the competition according to the championship data. So why was Schade preferred to Dunn for the first 6 rounds? Selection criteria has killed us on the football field for the last 5 years. List management and selection policy are the two areas of the game that have killed Buckley's coaching career at Collingwood. If Buckley gets reappointed Collingwood coach for next year, or gets a second chance at another club, he could still end up a great coach if he learns from his mistakes, because in most other areas of his coaching, I think he is a very good coach. |
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jatsad
Joined: 29 May 2010
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | BEAMER09 wrote: | Bugger the $million review: here is our one problem
1. Buckley |
One would hope, hope, that our next coach, whomever he may be, gets a better go from some fans than what Bucks got, no doubt if he flusters a bit, the usual suspects will want to knife him after two seasons, I can see it coming now.  |
What are you saying, Buckley hasn't been given a chance?
I call 6 years, and getting worse every year, a pretty good go.
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Jatsad - That is all |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| jatsad wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | BEAMER09 wrote: | Bugger the $million review: here is our one problem
1. Buckley |
One would hope, hope, that our next coach, whomever he may be, gets a better go from some fans than what Bucks got, no doubt if he flusters a bit, the usual suspects will want to knife him after two seasons, I can see it coming now. |
What are you saying, Buckley hasn't been given a chance?
I call 6 years, and getting worse every year, a pretty good go. |
Understatement of the year! Who else would have got this big a chance? Um, buckley and none!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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| think positive wrote: | | jatsad wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | BEAMER09 wrote: | Bugger the $million review: here is our one problem
1. Buckley |
One would hope, hope, that our next coach, whomever he may be, gets a better go from some fans than what Bucks got, no doubt if he flusters a bit, the usual suspects will want to knife him after two seasons, I can see it coming now. |
What are you saying, Buckley hasn't been given a chance?
I call 6 years, and getting worse every year, a pretty good go. |
Understatement of the year! Who else would have got this big a chance? Um, buckley and none! |
To be clear, I supported the club and Buckley's appointment.
Atleast with Malthouse you could see him developing players, making Finals, sensed that players loved playing for him, a game plan than continued to be refined with the biggest achievement in drafting Jolly and Ball that made all the difference (and with a bit of luck, we could've won another one if not two).
With Bucks, little or none of the above exist into his 6th year. The facts are there. The results are there. And we keep clinging onto hope that it will change. I would've loved to see him succeed but the last 2-3 years has been very, very difficult to watch a Collingwood game.
For a big club the we make out to be as Eddie tells us and the world, it just ain't good enough!!!
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COLLINGW09D |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| Post subject: Re: Bugger the $million review: here are our ten problems | |
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| Invigoration wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | 4. Players brought in: Aish (2 second rd picks on 4 year deal), Mayne ($500,000 for 4 years), Wells ($550,000), Greenwood ($500,000 for 4 years) whom have squeezed our salary cap.
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Don't Give Up on Aish Yet. Wells is worth that but been too Injured. Greenwood has been Very Sold.
Mayne is the only Big F**k Up.
What about brining in players like:
- Karnezis
- Clinton Young
- Jordan Russell
- Quieten Lynch |
I don't reckon the combined wages of those 4 guys would even equal Mayne's yearly salary 
No harm in having a punt on a few blokes like that. |
I think more to the point there is no point on taking players that proven duds at other clubs, hoping they will magically improve over night. Over paid average players like Greenwood harm the club as they are preferred every week to the development of a young player. The recruiting and coaching are in sync and both designed for the club to cling to mediocrity. It's just poor strategic management and has resulted in the almost perfect downward graph imaginable in Buckley's tenure. Buckley coaching result could not have been any worse. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| BEAMER09 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | jatsad wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | BEAMER09 wrote: | Bugger the $million review: here is our one problem
1. Buckley |
One would hope, hope, that our next coach, whomever he may be, gets a better go from some fans than what Bucks got, no doubt if he flusters a bit, the usual suspects will want to knife him after two seasons, I can see it coming now. |
What are you saying, Buckley hasn't been given a chance?
I call 6 years, and getting worse every year, a pretty good go. |
Understatement of the year! Who else would have got this big a chance? Um, buckley and none! |
To be clear, I supported the club and Buckley's appointment.
Atleast with Malthouse you could see him developing players, making Finals, sensed that players loved playing for him, a game plan than continued to be refined with the biggest achievement in drafting Jolly and Ball that made all the difference (and with a bit of luck, we could've won another one if not two).
With Bucks, little or none of the above exist into his 6th year. The facts are there. The results are there. And we keep clinging onto hope that it will change. I would've loved to see him succeed but the last 2-3 years has been very, very difficult to watch a Collingwood game.
For a big club the we make out to be as Eddie tells us and the world, it just ain't good enough!!! |
i honestly dont believe anyone on this site didnt desperately want to see Buckley hold up the cup. ( i could be wrong, im sure someone will put their hand up!) i know i desperately did. i still remember hearing the news of his retirement just as i was about to rush the kids out the door to royal park - and i stood there with tears pouring down my face, i just didnt want to believe it. i have a hand written thankyou note from Bucks on my gym wall, and it will always be there, next to a massive poster of him leading Licca and Rocca out of the race, its been the last two years where i have lost hope, and sadly, the club has to be bigger than 1 man. but a part of me still wants the fairy tale to come true, sadly i just dont see it. cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| I for one never 'desperately' wanted to see Buckley lift the cup. I desperately want the Collingwood football club to win flags regardless of who the coach is - as long as he's a good to great coach. I think that's been Collingwood problem - desperation to concoct a great coach out of a once great player. We should have just been looking for the best coach, instead the club was trumped by a McGuire 'captains call'. |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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All I can say is for a club with the best facilities and the available resources to recruit the best staff, from the outsider perspective we seem to be getting a hell of a lot wrong. The problems at the club you would think go well beyond the senior coach.
These resources do not translate directly into premierships but it certainly should give you some type of advantage behind the scenes. These is no doubting that Eddie is astute but I never thought that we would get ourselves into this position as a club.
Running a club of this size in this environment was never going to be easy but in some areas it would seem we have lost our way and some of the decisions from both a short and long term perspective seem flawed.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday
Last edited by Member 7167 on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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didick
didick
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
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^Clearly the club must have decided last year that our path wasn't one of a rebuild. We were going to go after experienced players that could fill a need hoping we got enough out of them to make finals and save Bucks' tenure. Clearly didn't work. It was a gamble that has backfired and may cost us this year and a few more. So someone has to be accountable for the gamble not paying off.
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"The night is a very dark time for me" Chaz Michael Michaels |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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I would be interested to know what Gubby's roles was in all of this. I have seen it claimed that both Wells and Maynes's appointments and contracts were down to him. Aspects of both of these seem quite ridiculous and the risks were obvious for all to see from day one. It almost seems that he came in with almost absolute authority in some areas and his actions were never going to be seen as reasonable or balanced.
I must admit, from a business perspective I simply does not make sense.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Member 7167 wrote: | I would be interested to know what Gubby's roles was in all of this. I have seen it claimed that both Wells and Maynes's appointments and contracts were down to him. Aspects of both of these seem quite ridiculous and the risks were obvious for all to see from day one. It almost seems that he came in with almost absolute authority in some areas and his actions were never going to be seen as reasonable or balanced.
I must admit, from a business perspective I simply does not make sense. |
For a club on the edge of competing in the finals it made perfectly good sense.
For a club sinking further into the mire it makes no sense at all.
Most things are retrievable and if we get a good coach who recruits well in the coming draft and instills a sense of winning into the players, the recruitment of Wells and Mayne could still work out ok next year. |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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Wells if we can get him on the park but from what I have seen at AFL level , Mayne is shot. Certainly no improvement on Blair who has been a great club-man but is now past it.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Member 7167 wrote: | | Wells if we can get him on the park but from what I have seen at AFL level , Mayne is shot. Certainly no improvement on Blair who has been a great club-man but is now past it. |
Did I hear you right? Mayne has been shot! Halelujah!   |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Member 7167 wrote: | All I can say is for a club with the best facilities and the available resources to recruit the best staff, from the outsider perspective we seem to be getting a hell of a lot wrong. The problems at the club you would think go well beyond the senior coach.
These resources do not translate directly into premierships but it certainly should give you some type of advantage behind the scenes. These is no doubting that Eddie is astute but I never thought that we would get ourselves into this position as a club.
Running a club of this size in this environment was never going to be easy but in some areas it would seem we have lost our way and some of the decisions from both a short and long term perspective seem flawed. |
Part a is the thing that always gets me! Why are we not the fittest? Not to mention a beautiful oval to train on, and, umhmm practice goal kicking. And the ice baths and the top Victorian sports doctors right next door?
The guy who jabs my knees once a year was our doctor in 2010, now he is sydneys doctor, I keep begging him to come back. The man is a magician!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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