 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
|
| Post subject: Re: Bugger the $million review: here are our ten problems |  |
|
| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | 4. Players brought in: Aish (2 second rd picks on 4 year deal), Mayne ($500,000 for 4 years), Wells ($550,000), Greenwood ($500,000 for 4 years) whom have squeezed our salary cap.
|
Don't Give Up on Aish Yet. Wells is worth that but been too Injured. Greenwood has been Very Sold.
Mayne is the only Big F**k Up.
What about brining in players like:
- Karnezis (swapped for J. Paine)
- Clinton Young (free agent)
- Jordan Russell (swapped for Tom Young pick 71)
- Quieten Lynch |
(free agent)
Am not too concerned with these given they are mere top up players for free virtually and are merely replacing players 38-43 on our list. |
Places on the list are limited. We could have been developing a young KPP instead. Hawthorn have been developing Tim O'Brien for the last 4 years. Only now is he showing his potential while our cupboard is empty. |
Is he as good as O'Meara or Vickery ($500K p.a) though?
_________________
'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
|
|
|
 |
Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I don't agree when people say free agency costs you nothing. I think chasing free agents has had an impact on us developing younger talent (other than just midfielders).
I had a good look at James Stewart on Saturday and he looked reasonably impressive. Obviously the recruiters thought we has only good enough for a rookie spot.
Who knows what we would have cost us given the Giants took him at a pick in the high 20's they may have put a bid in if we nominated. I think our recruiters have tended to rate midfielders higher. If steward was a midfielder they probably would have nominated him as F/S.
_________________
Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Johnno75 wrote: | I don't agree when people say free agency costs you nothing. I think chasing free agents has had an impact on us developing younger talent (other than just midfielders).
I had a good look at James Stewart on Saturday and he looked reasonably impressive. Obviously the recruiters thought we has only good enough for a rookie spot.
Who knows what we would have cost us given the Giants took him at a pick in the high 20's they may have put a bid in if we nominated. I think our recruiters have tended to rate midfielders higher. If steward was a midfielder they probably would have nominated him as F/S. |
I actually think the rot set in with us when we allowed Demir to publicly hold our club to ransom over his son's contract. Since then Travis went into rapid decline and this was apparently not foreseen by our coaches. Had we traded Travis to Carlton back at the end of 2011, we could have recruited a young replacement. Instead, Travis's rapid decline has left us severely short with regards a KPF. |
|
|
|
|
MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Johnno75 wrote: | I don't agree when people say free agency costs you nothing. I think chasing free agents has had an impact on us developing younger talent (other than just midfielders).
I had a good look at James Stewart on Saturday and he looked reasonably impressive. Obviously the recruiters thought we has only good enough for a rookie spot.
Who knows what we would have cost us given the Giants took him at a pick in the high 20's they may have put a bid in if we nominated. I think our recruiters have tended to rate midfielders higher. If steward was a midfielder they probably would have nominated him as F/S. |
I was speaking to a Geelong supporter over coffee this morning and he said that from his outsiders point of view, most of the Collingwood players on our list appear to be midfielders. He mentioned that from a business point of view, many managers hire employees who are very much like themselves. It doesn't make for a very good business decisions though because the employees are so much like the manager that there is no diversity of viewpoints that make for good business decisions. Applying this to the CFC it appears that Buckley has been building a list of likeminded mid types to himself that creates an inbalance in the team structure. This may explain why the club wasn't interested in recruiting Stewart. |
|
|
|
|
piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Johnno75 wrote: | | I had a good look at James Stewart on Saturday and he looked reasonably impressive. Obviously the recruiters thought we has only good enough for a rookie spot. |
I'd suggest he had a point to prove to that know-it-all dickhead Hine.
| Johnno75 wrote: | Who knows what we would have cost us given the Giants took him at a pick in the high 20's they may have put a bid in if we nominated.
I think our recruiters have tended to rate midfielders higher. If steward was a midfielder they probably would have nominated him as F/S. |
18 Brodie Grundy Collingwood Sturt 2012
19 Ben Kennedy Collingwood Glenelg 2012
20 Tim Broomhead Collingwood Port Adelaide (SANFL) 2012
21 Nathan Hrovat Western Bulldogs Northern U18 2012
22 Dean Towers Sydney Swans North Ballarat VFL 2012
23 Marco Paparone Brisbane Lions East Fremantle 2012
24 Nathan Wright St Kilda Dandenong U18 2012
25 Spencer White St Kilda Western U18 2012
26 Jack Viney Melbourne Casey Scorpions 2012
27 James Stewart Greater Western Sydney Sandringham U18 2012
28 Tim O'Brien Hawthorn Glenelg 2012
But no - this moron drafted us Kennedy and Broomhead; one a ball slaughterer, and the other too light to effect a contest.
Had we taken either Stewart and/or Hrovat with one or both of those picks, I might have cut him some slack.
_________________
M I L L A N E 4 2 forever
Last edited by piedys on Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| RudeBoy wrote: | | Johnno75 wrote: | I don't agree when people say free agency costs you nothing. I think chasing free agents has had an impact on us developing younger talent (other than just midfielders).
I had a good look at James Stewart on Saturday and he looked reasonably impressive. Obviously the recruiters thought we has only good enough for a rookie spot.
Who knows what we would have cost us given the Giants took him at a pick in the high 20's they may have put a bid in if we nominated. I think our recruiters have tended to rate midfielders higher. If steward was a midfielder they probably would have nominated him as F/S. |
I actually think the rot set in with us when we allowed Demir to publicly hold our club to ransom over his son's contract. Since then Travis went into rapid decline and this was apparently not foreseen by our coaches. Had we traded Travis to Carlton back at the end of 2011, we could have recruited a young replacement. Instead, Travis's rapid decline has left us severely short with regards a KPF. |
Yes indeed, I thought that was a red flag even though Travis signed on we should have been on high alert and given that we traded out Chris Dawes the club should have made it no. 1 priority to develop a young KPF.
But we went for free agency and got the likes of Lynch, White etc. They may have fitted other needs (our obsession to replace Leigh Brown) and people might say that is all good in hindsight but the club dropped the ball around those years in the draft.
_________________
Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Was the trip worth it? |
|
|
|
|
lihei 
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: One-Eyed Hill
|
| Post subject: Re: Bugger the $million review: here are our ten problems | |
|
| inxs88 wrote: | 1.Small and slow: 17 players under 182 cm with only 2 of them with genuine leg speed
2. Five General Managers of Football: in 5 years. How many mixed messages would have floated around the footy dept, player group and admin areas??
3. Injuries: 4/6 years Bux has been cruelled by genuine, win loss affecting injuries that have no doubt affected us. Freeman and Scharenberg were game changing losses.
4. Players brought in: Aish (2 second rd picks on 4 year deal), Mayne ($500,000 for 4 years), Wells ($550,000), Greenwood ($500,000 for 4 years) whom have squeezed our salary cap.
5. Tackling: not often spoke about on Nick's but can't help but see that outside Goldsack and Crisp, we can't make tackles "stick"!
6. Kicking skills: what can I say that we all don't know. It is galling to see supposed A graders butcher the ball EVERY week.
7. List imbalance: we have 12 half back flanker types, 18 midfielders and 6 forwards and 2 Rucks
8. Inflexible coaching moves: to think that Howe hasn't played 20 minutes forward since Round 3, 2016 is the embodiment of rigid!
9. No faith in youth: as other clubs blood and rotate youth into the seniors. We make our youngsters climb Mt Everest, discover penicillin and complete a PHD for some senior selection
10. No forecasting: failed to "read the tea leaves" of GWS and Gold Coast affect like the Hawks. Worst time to rebuild vs topping up.
FIX IT! |
Agreed with all points. Pert has to be in the barrel for some of this.
_________________
VOTE NO. Cancel the Cancel Culture. |
|
|
|
|
lihei
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: One-Eyed Hill
|
| Post subject: Re: Bugger the $million review: here are our ten problems | |
|
| inxs88 wrote: | 1.Small and slow: 17 players under 182 cm with only 2 of them with genuine leg speed
2. Five General Managers of Football: in 5 years. How many mixed messages would have floated around the footy dept, player group and admin areas??
3. Injuries: 4/6 years Bux has been cruelled by genuine, win loss affecting injuries that have no doubt affected us. Freeman and Scharenberg were game changing losses.
4. Players brought in: Aish (2 second rd picks on 4 year deal), Mayne ($500,000 for 4 years), Wells ($550,000), Greenwood ($500,000 for 4 years) whom have squeezed our salary cap.
5. Tackling: not often spoke about on Nick's but can't help but see that outside Goldsack and Crisp, we can't make tackles "stick"!
6. Kicking skills: what can I say that we all don't know. It is galling to see supposed A graders butcher the ball EVERY week.
7. List imbalance: we have 12 half back flanker types, 18 midfielders and 6 forwards and 2 Rucks
8. Inflexible coaching moves: to think that Howe hasn't played 20 minutes forward since Round 3, 2016 is the embodiment of rigid!
9. No faith in youth: as other clubs blood and rotate youth into the seniors. We make our youngsters climb Mt Everest, discover penicillin and complete a PHD for some senior selection
10. No forecasting: failed to "read the tea leaves" of GWS and Gold Coast affect like the Hawks. Worst time to rebuild vs topping up.
FIX IT! |
Agreed with all points. Pert has to be in the barrel for some of this.
_________________
VOTE NO. Cancel the Cancel Culture. |
|
|
|
|
stoliboy 
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
| Post subject: | |
|
This is a great article going year by year the drafting by the Pies. Also makes some good points on Collingwood's drafting and Buckley's coaching.
List management the coach-killer at Collingwood
By Cameron Rose, 11 Jul 2017
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/07/11/list-management-coach-killer-collingwood/
Summary
Recycling rejects has been a trademark of Buckley’s time as senior coach of Collingwood, and frankly the list management has been abhorrent.
Across 2013-14, seven players were brought in from other clubs, for six clear failures. That sort of strike rate kills coaches, given it means they are actively bringing in list cloggers.
In terms of the draft in those years, we’re looking at one rock solid win in that period, from five top 20 picks and ten selections used overall. There should be a host of players entering the prime of their careers and shaping games in their fourth and fifth seasons, but instead there is only Brodie Grundy.
They are the two years that have crippled Nathan Buckley.
The decision-making to bring in injury-riddled players from other clubs has been another coach-killer. Buckley must wear the blame for those decisions.
When you draft kids that end up having injury problems, that can be lived with. You hope the rewards come as their bodies mature. When you actively bring in players that have a long history of missing games, while you have some injury-prone kids on your list, then you’re just asking for trouble. You don’t get to cry poor when the inevitable happens.
In terms of gameday coaching, Buckley’s teams have possessed the ball more the further down the ladder they have fallen. Given how unreliable by foot so many of their players are, this is a recipe for disaster. They are simply providing more chances to turn the ball over without gaining any ground in the meantime.
Taylor Adams, despite his dodgy disposal, has been asked to play a more outside game in recent weeks, all of them losses. He’s a clearance and contested ball winner by trade. That’s bad coaching.
Indirect ball movement and over-possession can be linked to having barely one AFL-standard key forward to call on. Even then, Darcy Moore is being asked to shoulder too much too soon in his career, and anyway, he is more Jack Watts than Jesse Hogan.
Again, list management.
The fall of Collingwood, when it seemed on the verge of a dynasty, is almost complete. It has been orchestrated from within, and looking back, has been so calculated that it’s as if a double agent from Carlton, Richmond or Essendon has been pulling the strings.
Hawthorn won three premierships in a row thanks to a gameplan geared toward pristine kicking skills. At the same time, Collingwood were bringing in both draftees and recruits whom Alastair Clarkson wouldn’t let in the door.
Collingwood’s list failure has been systemic, and Nathan Buckley will pay the price.
_________________
Sydney Collingwood Supporters Club
http://sydneymagpies.magpies.net/ |
|
|
|
|
MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| I've said this repeatly about Greenwood and Crisp, as raised above, you cannot play both in the same side. Buckley tries to get around it by playing one in the backline and one in the forward line. It's not fair on either player. Now that one is suspended we might get away with it this weekend. People have been critical of Buckley's game plan, but it wouldn't matter what you do when you have the wrong mix of players in your 22 side (ie. too many slow moving inside mids). The best game plan won't work! |
|
|
|
|
uncanny
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine
|
| Post subject: | |
|
[quote="stoliboy"]This is a great article going year by year the drafting by the Pies. Also makes some good points on Collingwood's drafting and Buckley's coaching.
List management the coach-killer at Collingwood
By Cameron Rose, 11 Jul 2017
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/07/11/list-management-coach-killer-collingwood/
I was going to cite this article but you beat me to it Stoliboy.
It backs up what was highlighted in several points in this thread including several of the ten reasons listed in the thread. The best coach in the world still needs the cattle. That's our main problem. Our list is not good enough. A bit of bad luck with some of the picks (Freeman and Shazza so far) but overall too much emphasis on the same sort of player. Midfielders. Half back flankers. Good triers but don't hurt the opposition enough. Also too many busts or at best, good ordinary players as free agents. Nathan has been part of that decision making. He's got to live with the consequence that they are not getting the results that we are after. It's more about this than coaching ability. It tells me it's time for a new coach and list management team.
_________________
woodsmen rule |
|
|
|
|
uncanny
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine
|
| Post subject: | |
|
[quote="stoliboy"]This is a great article going year by year the drafting by the Pies. Also makes some good points on Collingwood's drafting and Buckley's coaching.
List management the coach-killer at Collingwood
By Cameron Rose, 11 Jul 2017
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/07/11/list-management-coach-killer-collingwood/
I was going to cite this article but you beat me to it Stoliboy.
It backs up what was highlighted in several points in this thread including several of the ten reasons listed in the thread. The best coach in the world still needs the cattle. That's our main problem. Our list is not good enough. A bit of bad luck with some of the picks (Freeman and Shazza so far) but overall too much emphasis on the same sort of player. Midfielders. Half back flankers. Good triers but don't hurt the opposition enough. Also too many busts or at best, good ordinary players as free agents. Nathan has been part of that decision making. He's got to live with the consequence that they are not getting the results that we are after. It's more about this than coaching ability. It tells me it's time for a new coach and list management team.
_________________
woodsmen rule |
|
|
|
|
What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yeah, a great article.
'bout time someone had the balls to say it like that, rather than come up with excuse after excuse for Buckley.
_________________
Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It really is spot on and what a lot of us have been saying. MM must be laughing his head off. It's embarrassing. And so is guaranteeing the next 7 weeks. Stupid
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
