Is society getting worse?

[Pies4shaw]

PTID, here's a very interesting paper: http://www.vrc.crim.cam.ac.uk/vrcresearch/paperdownload/manuel-eisner-historical-trends-in-violence.pdf

It suggests a strong historical trend in reduced rates of homicide from the early-modern period until about 1950, followed by an historically slight swing back up.

Presumably, there are also analyses of the "swing back up" that try to isolate the pertinent factors. I don't have enough interest to follow that through but I'd be looking at at least the following: cultural factors that might "predispose" certain sub-populations to violence (especially since the majority of acts of interpersonal violence are committed against domestic partners), increased availability of lethal weapons (especially firearms), improved policing/detection methods, increased emphasis on prosecution, changed classification of certain kinds of incidents as crimes, terrorism activities (it only takes one IRA bombing or a Lockerbie etc to distort the statistics) and the usual myriad of socio-political issues, as well as the impact of wars as an outlet for anti-social behaviour (the rates of "criminal" homicide in the early 20th century pale into insignificance against the numbers of people killed in wars - so, to suggest that society was "safer" before the 1960s requires a very, very loaded concept of "safe").

[Mugwump]

^ data for murder alone is apt to mislead on the positive side, because knife wounds predominate and trauma management and surgery now save many lives that would once have been lost. Also, mass terrorism can distort stats. The only reliable dataset across time is GBH + attempted murder + murder. These tend to be reported and defined consistently. The increase is truly horrific, looked at over a 50 years or so time series.

[stui magpie]

Regardless of the data, the anecdotal evidence is that society is becoming more violent.

Just because it doesn't end up with hospitalisation or death doesn't mean there isn't a general tone of people, particularly young ones, resorting to violence far quicker than they used to. The level of violence is also something that's been discussed before. Back in the day, if 2 blokes got in a push and shove, their mates would gather around and let them go 1 on 1. Now, it's all on all, fists, boots, anything you can cause damage with. When someone hits the ground, rather than back off and let them get up, they now kick the shit out of them on the ground. 25 years ago you'd get belted by your own mates if you did that, now they join in.

I'm not going to try root cause analysis, as always it will be a whole combination of factors. The fact it, we live in a very different society now than we did 50 years ago. Some of it is worse, a lot of it is better.

On balance, I prefer now, with all it's faults.

[Mugwump]

^ no question today is much better in many ways, especially if you have money. It's better for certain minorities, whose treatment needed reform. I think it's also better for women, though that's something for women to debate, probably, rather than men.

The quality of consumer goods and the consumer experience (including the blessing of medical technologies) is also improved out of sight.

I suspect that these things could have been achieved without the expansion of criminality, the increasing inequality, the shoddy relativism, and the dreadful sentimental hypocrisy and disrespect that disfigures our culture now. The slide into disorder, if it continues, will ultimately rupture our society and nation, or cause a dramatic and unpleasant reaction from the nasty end of the right. History often goes backward if civilized behaviour is not defended.

[stui magpie]

the last 30-50 years have seen a social and technological revolution every bit as impacting as the industrial revolution.

Personally i reckon I'm in the best of it now, my grandkids won't have it so good.

[HAL]

Who was that?

[Mugwump]

^ forward-looking nostalgia ain't what it used to be....

[HAL]

I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.

[Morrigu]

Humans are the most self indulgent, entitled and destructive animals on this planet and bloody oath they have got worse over the past even 10 years!!

They have decimated so many of the planets environments - think as one example Palm Oil plantations in Malaysia and Indonesia, their actions have resulted in many species becoming extinct or seriously endangered and cheap travel and greater expendable income has meant psychopaths can pay to shoot an animal for "fun" and a " brag selfie" ( fck me even giraffes - seriously giraffes ) and despite the availability of actual scientific evidence that is easily and readily accessible fctards still think it's ok to hack of the horn of a rhino to prevent fever ( I always chew my nails to eliminate fever ) and kill an elephant for a " trinket" Let alone the lion bone trade

And then you have politicians who are roundly loved and admired like that Canadian prick whose government still fund and support the horrific and cruel clubbing of baby seal pups!!

You have dickwads live streaming murders, rapes and animal cruelty, you have complete morons taking selfies that result in the death of the animal - all for "likes" on social media - yeah whatever

Edit: Memo to self when really angry and upset stay away from social media!!

[Pies4shaw]

Giraffes with guns taking brag selfies? I'd like to see that!

[Morrigu]

Whatever - knock yourself out

Something for humanity to aspire to

[stui magpie]

Maybe more like this?

[Skids]

More people should smoke weed and be excellent to each other.

There's no crime in Nimbin (other than a bit of hooch changing hands).

Went there yesterday

[luvdids]

[Mugwump]

^ yes, while I would not adopt the practices of sharia law, the principle is right. When criminals cease to fear the law and law-abiding people become fatalistic about crime, society begins to decline.