 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| mooretreloar wrote: | Just a novel idea, maybe just stop for a second and consider is it possible that you are wrong? Is it possible you don't understand professional sport? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach.
Is it possible this poster that you love to have a crack at actually knows what he is talking about? |
You need a mirror
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
 |
What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| mooretreloar wrote: | Just a novel idea, maybe just stop for a second and consider is it possible that you are wrong? Is it possible you don't understand professional sport? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach? Is it possible that you don't understand the role of a coach.
Is it possible this poster that you love to have a crack at actually knows what he is talking about? |
We all understand that you're a f*&king idiot. |
|
|
|
|
Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
|
| Post subject: | |
|
All I know is, to quote my dear late Grandmother, a die hard Fitzroy fan, she always said "Good players make good coaches, if a coach hasn't got the cattle, doesn't matter whom he is,he will struggle " I reckon she was right then and still is, she barracked for the Royboys for some 88 years, reckon she knew a thing or two about footy. !
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
|
|
|
|
The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| mooretreloar wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll. |
Troll, or club plant does it matter?!? He does nothing but attack any poster that cares to disagree with his version of the world. I mean how many people have to tell him he's wrong before he gets it? it's all become a bit of a yawn fest to be honest. |
Not a troll, just a person that understands professional sport.
Mr Wolf, the actual point is how many times do I need to point out the same thing over and over again until it gets through to your thick skulls. I will keep typing it until you and your mates get it.
You and your mates add nothing of value to the site. All you do is show your misunderstanding of AFL and professional sport. |
See what I mean, all he wants to do is disagree with people and say 'look my ego is bigger than yours' - MT please we understand that you're a somewhat intelligent fellow, but there is no need to go around judging other peoples intelligence just because they disagree with you.
I have no doubt that you 100% believe in everything you write here, but that doesn't make it true nor correct. Some things you say are right, but also many are wrong. Again this is an opinion, but at some point when so many others disagree with your opinions, it can be prudent to reevaluate them. But of course sometimes one is just a perceptive fellow. Lets let history be the judge.
And please, for love of god... we don't care that you played professional sport or not - there're a lot of very dumb professional sports people out there, now I'm not saying you're one of them... but you could be.
_________________
All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
|
|
|
|
thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Piesnchess wrote: | | , if a coach hasn't got the cattle, doesn't matter whom he is,he will struggle " . ! |
I like the FNQ saying of all hat and no cattle!
And as far as I am concerned the poster in question reminds me of Bob Katter .....now he has a big big hat.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
|
|
|
|
5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | So watt price tully join the long long long list of posters here who are unintelligent, stupid, flawed beyond belief and a whole host of other failings because you disagree with a certain poster.
Pointless arguing with him.
Starting to think whether he is a troll. |
Troll, or club plant does it matter?!? He does nothing but attack any poster that cares to disagree with his version of the world. I mean how many people have to tell him he's wrong before he gets it? it's all become a bit of a yawn fest to be honest. |
Not a troll, just a person that understands professional sport.
Mr Wolf, the actual point is how many times do I need to point out the same thing over and over again until it gets through to your thick skulls. I will keep typing it until you and your mates get it.
You and your mates add nothing of value to the site. All you do is show your misunderstanding of AFL and professional sport. |
See what I mean, all he wants to do is disagree with people and say 'look my ego is bigger than yours' - MT please we understand that you're a somewhat intelligent fellow, but there is no need to go around judging other peoples intelligence just because they disagree with you.
I have no doubt that you 100% believe in everything you write here, but that doesn't make it true nor correct. Some things you say are right, but also many are wrong. Again this is an opinion, but at some point when so many others disagree with your opinions, it can be prudent to reevaluate them. But of course sometimes one is just a perceptive fellow. Lets let history be the judge.
And please, for love of god... we don't care that you played professional sport or not - there're a lot of very dumb professional sports people out there, now I'm not saying you're one of them... but you could be. |
Wolf,
I dispute that he is intelligent. I dispute that he has played a high level sport. If he had, he wouldn't go on about it. |
|
|
|
|
thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
People who obtain a high level of participation in Poitics, Corporate, Philinthropic, Sport, Military, etc... really keep a low profile when it comes to talking about themselves.
They do not trumpet their so called success to the wider world unless asked about it..
That is why you have to take MT word that he is an elite sportsperson with a dollop of Cod Liver Oil.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
[quote="mooretreloar"] | watt price tully wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | The reason Collingwood is where it is now on the ladder is due to several reasons as is obvious to any one except those with tickets on themselves.
Is is a combination of factors including but not limited to:
1. Players skills
2. Coaching plans, strategies & tactics
3. Selection committee including the coach
4. Player availability.
On game day it is a combination of factors including player execution of skills & coaching tactics. The extent to which these factors occur in a game will vary on the day, the time & the scenario
This is common sense.
If a player or players on the opposing team are controlling the game, such as patterns of play not anticipated or not adequately addressed by pre-game planning then the coach needs to accountable & make moves accordingly.
If a coach or coaching team responds too slowly to difficulties encountered then the game can be lost or the advantage at that time point in time can be lost. If coaches are too inflexible to only see one way of doing things then that will reflect on what the team does.
To suggest it's players only is as limited and narrow an analysis as that view self evidently suggests. To not entertain the idea that there is a combination of factors at play (only the degree to which that combination is at play is debatable) & to reduce that to an arbitrary number based on speculation such as 98% & 2% is just as limited as doing accountancy on the back of a sheet of toilet paper. |
MooreTreloar in part replied
Nothing to do with tickets on myself. Also, your view is not even close to common sense, it omits multiple factors.
Do you want me to take you through the Gary Rohan supposed "move" again that you suggested was the reason that Sydney beat Essendon two Friday nights ago? As I posted in that thread, there were numerous player decisions, player non-decisions, player skill errors, good play by players, positioning errors by players, etc, that occurred before Rohan even got his chance to be involved in the contest. |
WPT replied in part
I am writing that there are multiple factors whilst you post there is only one that is players only that have a role on game day. .......
.........Unless you've done a path analysis or a form thereof which examines multifactorial variables and places a value on each them (Path analysis is a straightforward extension of multiple regression. Its aim is to provide estimates of the magnitude and significance of hypothesised causal connections between sets of variables) your 98% was in effect as evidence based as astrology or the sport of international goat f*cking - I'll resist temptation.... |
MT replied in part
Mr Tully, your view is clearly understood from my end, .........
To say that a result of an AFL match is jointly, which is implying 50%, the responsibility of the coach and the players is laughable and beyond a joke.......quote]
WPT replied
I'm sorry you took the implication as 50%. I wrote elsewhere in this thread I think that there a number of variables & these vary during the match to a greater or lesser extent. The players do play a large part for sure. In fact I'm in furious agreement with you on most things. However the one thing I'm not in agreement with you is that it is not just the players, can't be. Life be it AFL analysis or any other thing can never be explained with one single explanation. It doesn't add up & I'm not trying to be pedantic.
Cheers
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
Kosh
Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Location: Carlton, Melbourne
|
| Post subject: Miserable and Joyless | |
|
My real complaint is that the football we play is utterly joyless. I may as well be a Scunthorpe United fan watching the return leg of a pointless cup tie, away at Walsall FC, on a miserable freezing Tuesday night in January, after they beat us 4-0 at home. Even then, I would probably have more to look forward to...
Watching us play is just awful. I get almost no joy out of it. I have had to watch some fairly dour awful teams, in my time, but there was always something to hang your hat on....I just don't see it anymore.
Win or lose, that is the saddest thing because I am just losing interest. |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: Re: Miserable and Joyless | |
|
| Kosh wrote: | My real complaint is that the football we play is utterly joyless. I may as well be a Scunthorpe United fan watching the return leg of a pointless cup tie, away at Walsall FC, on a miserable freezing Tuesday night in January, after they beat us 4-0 at home. Even then, I would probably have more to look forward to...
Watching us play is just awful. I get almost no joy out of it. I have had to watch some fairly dour awful teams, in my time, but there was always something to hang your hat on....I just don't see it anymore.
Win or lose, that is the saddest thing because I am just losing interest. |
That's actually the way modern football is played. It is fast becoming tedious to watch. |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^. It's the congestion, I think. 16 on the ground is the thing to try.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
ilovenathanbuckley
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | The lack of modern day football knowledge on this site has to be read to be believed.
VFL - we are in 2017, not 1967. The players aren't training two nights a week, whilst also having a real job. In this scenario, the impact of the coach on match day would be significantly more impactful.
AFL footballers are professional sportspeople. Have a think about what this entails.
AFL clubs are fully professional. Every club knows how every other club is going to play and wants to play. Each club has numerous opposition scouts, whose sole job is to analyse the opposition. That is, there aren't very many surprises, if any, on game day. This should be evident to posters that watch AFL closely, predominantly every club is trying to play the same way. I keep reading we went backwards and sideways, did you not watch the game? Hawthorn did exactly the same thing, the only difference was they hit many more targets than we did.
Our game plan and structures, that posters who bag these wouldn't have a clue what either of these are, have held up extremely well in 2017. We have been in a winning position in each and every game, bar last week against Port. This would not be the case if the coaching group were not providing the correct information to the players.
A win or a loss in modern day AFL football comes down to the ability of professional athletes to execute on game day.
Consequently, it is as clear as the nose on your face, if you know anything about AFL and sport, that we are 5-9 because of the poor skill execution and poor decision making of our players. These deficiencies have led to us gifting multiple goals to the opposition at inopportune times, which in such an even competition where the margin between a win and a loss is minuscule, is the reason we are 5-9 and not 9-5. If you want just one example from yesterday of which there were many, Howe kicking in straight to Mitchell in the last quarter. This has absolutely and utterly nothing to do with the coach. |
The common ground you and I have is that we both feel very sorry for the coach and wish it had somehow turned out better. But in accounting for our poor display against Hawthorn you say the coach doesn't have any accountability for the way the team played. Even the coach himself would disagree with your assessment. The coach chooses the 22 that play each week. He recruits the 44 players who make up the list. He trains them and prepares them to play against the opposition each week. If the team plays poorly he takes responsibility for the way the team performs. There are always extenuating circumstances for the way the team performed which you didn't even bother to bring up. We had two players on the bench in the last quarter which limited our options at either end of the ground. But at the end of the day the coach takes responsibility for the performance of the team and that's the way it's been in the history of the game. I don't know how else you want to spin it? I listened to Buckley's presser. I thought he was very good explaining the loss. I also thought he was optimistic about the list going forward into next year. The bit about players playing their best footy in their late twenties has been misrepresented here. He wasn't excusing the poor performance of the younger players in the side. He was just saying that the younger players would get better with maturity. |
The match committee choose the 22 that play each week. Obviously, the coach has his say.
The recruiting team recruit the playing list. Obviously, the coach has his say.
We are losing games of football in a season were the difference between a win and a loss is minuscule because we are gifting 6 to 8 goals to the opposition each and every week from poor skill errors and dumb decision making. As John Worsfold said in the book extract that I posted "You (being the coach) cannot influence their ability on game day." At the moment the skill level and decision making of some of our players is not at AFL standard, but I guarantee you that the players, Buckley, the other members of the coaching group and the rest of the whole club are working at improving these areas.
Will it be enough to save his job? Very unlikely, as it is easier to sack one person, then it is to sack multiple people and it is far easier to sell hope with a new coach. This is why throughout history a coach has always been the one where the responsibility of failure is apportioned.
There have been many examples in recent times where this blame has been apportioned incorrectly and the decision made to replace the coach has backfired spectacularly on club that has made the call to change the coach. So, if the club makes the call to change the coach, let's hope they pick the right candidate because at the moment we have a playing group that clearly wants Bucks to be their coach and if the club makes the wrong call and the new coach and players clash, we will be in for a number of years of pain. |
I'm with you. I feel sick inside if and when Buckley gets the chop, but I can't see any other way out for the club. Naturally Buckley will say that mathematically we can still make finals, but realistically it just won't happen. I hope the players realise that they have just brought about the demise of the coaching career of our greatest ever player. Sad days ahead. |
There will be about 36 happy players when he gets the chop. They just don't enjoy being at the club, it's as simple as that. |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ source ?
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
kymbo5@yahoo.com.au
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ source ? |
His arse.
_________________
kymbo |
|
|
|
|
ilovenathanbuckley
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ source ? |
That would be the players! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
