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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | prejudicial my arse. lacking empathy I'll take but the term I prefer is pragmatic. |
There's nothing pragmatic about misjudging people's intentions. Of course there may be some who cross borders with no other intention than to find the spot with the best welfare cheques so they can live in luxury off the taxpayer. I find it unlikely, but, you know, it takes all kinds. What I can't abide by is the suggestion that most or all asylum seekers are motivated by this. It shows an enormous lack of ability to imagine yourself in other people's shoes, and a strong vein of prejudice. Pa Marmo's post says it all: to him, these people are greedy, lazy and selfish, and here to take what's ours. It's a caricature, pure and simple.
Presuming malign intent in people we don't know (and scarcely know anything about) is cynical and ungracious. Presuming malign intent in a universalised mass of foreigners, on the other hand, is just racism. The textbook definition thereof, really. |
Bullshit. We assume intent based on observable actions all the time, for individuals and groups.
FWIW, You originally said welfare had nothing to do with it, now you conceded it is motivation for some, so we actually agree.
I said it was a pull factor. One, not the only, not the only thing people would consider. Some clearly choose to try to stay in culturally similar countries, that's another pull factor.
To discount welfare as a pull factor because it disagrees with your ideals is the text book definition of stupid.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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No, I said I doubt that anyone would make the trip specifically for the Centrelink benefits, then I rephrased that to say it could be possible that a small minority do it, but that it still seems unlikely.
The fairly obvious point here is that the standard of living here is so much higher than that of parts of Afghanistan, Somalia, Sri Lanka etc. that that in enough is surely a sufficient motivation – and I'm only talking about economic migrants there, not the many genuine refugees who don't even have a proper home over there to begin with. You can say that welfare is part of that standard of living, but I would suggest that someone making such a huge life (and possibly life-ending) decision is thinking much bigger picture than that.
Edit: Some data on the proportion of refugees vs 'economic migrants' in Manus and Nauru:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/07/20/rudds-manus-agreement-left-open-current-arrangements/
| Quote: | | As of the end of May this year, there are still 370 people (including 48 women and 43 children) in the Nauru detention centre, and 816 men in the Manus Island detention centre. As of May, 722 men on Manus Island have been found to be refugees, with all but 27 still in PNG (15 were listed by the department as no longer being in PNG, while 12 were in Australia for medical treatment). The government said 233 men had failed in their applications for asylum, and 32 voluntarily returned to their country of origin, while six were involuntarily returned to their country of origin. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Fixed mind, squirming.
There would be a number of pull factors that any human would take into account.
Proximity to home
Cultural fit
Family
Financial opportunity (including opportunity to gain employment and welfare)
Safety
Have a look at the map chart on this link of where the most Syrian and other refugees tried to gain asylum in Europe.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911
Young males with no trade, minimal education who've had no money most of their life would likely target somewhere they can get money with no skills.
Where did most of them try to go?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^^^ Ringwood?  |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ Ringwood? |
Heidelberg west.
They prefer tracksuits to flannies. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| And the wide-open, gently-curving boulevards in which to do burn-outs in their renovated 1971 Valiant VH Chargers (the vehicle you really can call home). |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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No 71 valiants I'm afraid, the VN-VP Commodore is the weapon of choice for the current crop of bogans.
Thomastown and Epping (you might need to google those suburbs) are home to most of the northern bogan, but Heidelberg West has it's own little chic.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | No 71 valiants I'm afraid, the VN-VP Commodore is the weapon of choice for the current crop of bogans.
Thomastown and Epping (you might need to google those suburbs) are home to most of the northern bogan, but Heidelberg West has it's own little chic. |
Would it disturb you to read that I am (originally) a Northern Suburbs boy, that I know precisely where Epping and Thomastown are, that I recall vividly when the 86 tram-route terminated in Preston and that as a kid my parents used to take the family out to South Morang for a Sunday drive in the country?
Those are just some of a series of very compelling reasons for me living in the City, now.  |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | No 71 valiants I'm afraid, the VN-VP Commodore is the weapon of choice for the current crop of bogans.
Thomastown and Epping (you might need to google those suburbs) are home to most of the northern bogan, but Heidelberg West has it's own little chic. |
Would it disturb you to read that I am (originally) a Northern Suburbs boy, that I know precisely where Epping and Thomastown are, that I recall vividly when the 86 tram-route terminated in Preston and that as a kid my parents used to take the family out to South Morang for a Sunday drive in the country?
Those are just some of a series of very compelling reasons for me living in the City, now. |
LOL, It wouldn't disturb me in the slightest but does explain a few things. 
We should meet up one time at the Thomastown sunday market. You could buy one of the archery sets, perfect for picking off cycling hipsters from your balcony.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| As the time passes by and Australians arrive and depart by the plane load, the injection of cash into the Balinese economy is going OK. The Muslims are trying to take over Bali but the Hindus are fighting back. Tattoo parlours are out of control and WA residents are #1 in having tats no matter what age or gender. Nothing like seeing an Aussie with a Bintang in hand walking down one of the streets who think it's a good look, I guess having a Bintang singlet on helps. Nothing like sitting down the beach and having a beer and enjoying the sun and getting through on less than $20 a day. Had a good day Sunday with all the West Coast supporters, it was hilarious their reactions. Some threatening to kill me even. I wonder what today's adventures will bring? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Culprit wrote: | | As the time passes by and Australians arrive and depart by the plane load, the injection of cash into the Balinese economy is going OK. The Muslims are trying to take over Bali but the Hindus are fighting back. Tattoo parlours are out of control and WA residents are #1 in having tats no matter what age or gender. Nothing like seeing an Aussie with a Bintang in hand walking down one of the streets who think it's a good look, I guess having a Bintang singlet on helps. Nothing like sitting down the beach and having a beer and enjoying the sun and getting through on less than $20 a day. Had a good day Sunday with all the West Coast supporters, it was hilarious their reactions. Some threatening to kill me even. I wonder what today's adventures will bring? |
gees youve Bin-tang there a while, your not in Schapelles old Cell are you??
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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I'd rather have an export in Rockingham (I hate export)
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | As the time passes by and Australians arrive and depart by the plane load, the injection of cash into the Balinese economy is going OK. The Muslims are trying to take over Bali but the Hindus are fighting back. Tattoo parlours are out of control and WA residents are #1 in having tats no matter what age or gender. Nothing like seeing an Aussie with a Bintang in hand walking down one of the streets who think it's a good look, I guess having a Bintang singlet on helps. Nothing like sitting down the beach and having a beer and enjoying the sun and getting through on less than $20 a day. Had a good day Sunday with all the West Coast supporters, it was hilarious their reactions. Some threatening to kill me even. I wonder what today's adventures will bring? |
gees youve Bin-tang there a while, your not in Schapelles old Cell are you?? |
Here to Mid August.  |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Nothing like seeing Drunken Aussies crash on a scooter. No helmets, only shorts and thongs. All grewesone as my first aid kicked in. Waiting for the ambo I asked one of them if they had travel insurance? No was the reply. I said, you best contact your family to get flown home ASAP or have $20k available as you are severely injured.
Travel insurance costs stuff all. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Gees what was the injury?? That's awful. Cant believe people don't get the insurance, madness
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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