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mandy 
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Location: Glen Iris
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I genuinely can't remember the last time my TV was turned to Channel 10.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | ronrat wrote: | | If someone was pinching your food from the garden eventually you will fence, protect or prosecute. |
That is not the Same as Piray.
When you steal something it's gone for Good and that is what NOT happens with Piracy
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maybe not but people aren't paying for it.
I'll expand on the garden argument.
Lets say Dave, you decide you could make a little extra coin by selling some fruit to the locals. So you plant a few trees in the yard. An Apple, Orange, mandarin for example.
You figure it'll take a couple of years, but you plant them, water them, fertilise them, prune them and otherwise look after them till they start putting out lots of fruit.
So you've got all this fruit and you set up a little stall at the front of the house to sell the fruit to people walking by.
The problem is, you're not selling much even though it's cheap, because people are just walking in your yard and picking it off the trees without paying. Would you be happy with that?
Use a digital example.
You set up your own Youtube page and do video blogs. They become quite popular, lots of people subscribe to your page, you get lots of hits and you get paid by Youtube as well as getting some companies sponsor you. You're not rolling in coin, but getting a nice little earn.
Then, someone starts downloading your video blogs and putting them on another site with other similar videos and added commentary. Something that starts pulling viewers away from your youtube channel.
You subscriptions go down, your sponsors bail out or reduce what they give you because a lot of people prefer to go to the other site.
Now that person hasn't stolen your video, it's still there on your site, but they've cost you money because people are getting it there instead of from you.
Would you be happy with that?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | ronrat wrote: | | If someone was pinching your food from the garden eventually you will fence, protect or prosecute. |
That is not the Same as Piray.
When you steal something it's gone for Good and that is what NOT happens with Piracy
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maybe not but people aren't paying for it.
I'll expand on the garden argument.
Lets say Dave, you decide you could make a little extra coin by selling some fruit to the locals. So you plant a few trees in the yard. An Apple, Orange, mandarin for example.
You figure it'll take a couple of years, but you plant them, water them, fertilise them, prune them and otherwise look after them till they start putting out lots of fruit.
So you've got all this fruit and you set up a little stall at the front of the house to sell the fruit to people walking by.
The problem is, you're not selling much even though it's cheap, because people are just walking in your yard and picking it off the trees without paying. Would you be happy with that?
Use a digital example.
You set up your own Youtube page and do video blogs. They become quite popular, lots of people subscribe to your page, you get lots of hits and you get paid by Youtube as well as getting some companies sponsor you. You're not rolling in coin, but getting a nice little earn.
Then, someone starts downloading your video blogs and putting them on another site with other similar videos and added commentary. Something that starts pulling viewers away from your youtube channel.
You subscriptions go down, your sponsors bail out or reduce what they give you because a lot of people prefer to go to the other site.
Now that person hasn't stolen your video, it's still there on your site, but they've cost you money because people are getting it there instead of from you.
Would you be happy with that? |
Well the Garden one is Trespassing.
Youtube has a way IF you do make videos and someone steals it you can report it to take it down or make money off there Video they Put Up.
Well Youtube is going down the Shitter anyway at the Moment
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I am Da Man |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Thanks Stui. I went to bed shaking my head with that response from DTM. So would a magistrate or a judge. So if I go to Daves Dads place hotwire his car, Drive it around for a few hours and put some petrol in it. Then I put it back. I haven't stolen it, the car still exists. All good . The tenth time I do it someones sees me and rings the cops saying the car is stolen. So as I am down at Frankston buying a pizza at 2 in the morning and have put 20 bucks of petrol in the car. The cops spot the car and as I walk out the door and jump in the car I am surrounded and arrested. My excuse is this. No one said anything the first 9 times and I intended to put it back in 30 minutes. Nothing was said about the other 4 cars I have been using. Anyway the owner must be rich because the car maker is rich. Not guilty.
Yeah, 4 years to think about it son. In gaol.
I am not cheering for movie studios making millions having had the movie paid for by product placement. Don't cry when I see a Cambodian garment worker sell me a shirt for 5 bucks that the company (Abercrombie and Fitch is one) sell in New York for near 200 bucks whilst paying the Cambodian worker about a dollar to make it. But Dave never ever use the excuse you are not stealing. You are.
That Channel 10 are crap is irrelevant.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| ronrat wrote: | Thanks Stui. I went to bed shaking my head with that response from DTM. So would a magistrate or a judge. So if I go to Daves Dads place hotwire his car, Drive it around for a few hours and put some petrol in it. Then I put it back. I haven't stolen it, the car still exists. All good . The tenth time I do it someones sees me and rings the cops saying the car is stolen. So as I am down at Frankston buying a pizza at 2 in the morning and have put 20 bucks of petrol in the car. The cops spot the car and as I walk out the door and jump in the car I am surrounded and arrested. My excuse is this. No one said anything the first 9 times and I intended to put it back in 30 minutes. Nothing was said about the other 4 cars I have been using. Anyway the owner must be rich because the car maker is rich. Not guilty.
Yeah, 4 years to think about it son. In gaol. |
That's not a bad analogy – the only trouble is that, while it might technically constitute theft, it's a pretty strange kind of theft where you voluntarily return the item every night. That just doesn't fit with our conventional understanding of what theft is (i.e. taking something of yours so that you don't have it any more). The "piracy is theft" equivalence is and always will be an oversimplification. Intellectual property ain't property, not in the conventional sense. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected, but I would like to see the balance of power shift much further away from copyright holders.
(Also, since when do you get four years in jail for joyriding?  )
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Why are we talking about video piracy in a thread about CH 10?
It's not as if the two subjects have anything to do with each other.
There are several key things to understand here.
(1) This is a contrived "failure". 10 has ample undrawn funds in its existing banking arrangement, and has made no effort to find alternative sources should it not wish to use any more of the existing loan arrangement.
(2) The "failure" has been contrived by two large, wealthy shareholders so as to be (they hope) able to buy the rest of the company at a large discount to market value, or (more likely) pressure the Feds to further weaken the already very weak media cross-ownership laws.
(3) In the longer term, it matters little. Free to air TV died years ago. It's still walking and talking out of habit, not because it has a beating heart. The zombie companies still operating in the free to air market are on borrowed time. Even old people are switching off in their tens of thousands now. Why would anyone want to watch CH 10 when they have so many superior alternatives? The only people I know who still watch free to air TV are my parents, and they are in their eighties. And they only watch the ABC and SBS. Even they are starting to use on-demand sources now. Most younger people switched off years ago.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Tannin wrote: | Why are we talking about video piracy in a thread about CH 10?
It's not as if the two subjects have anything to do with each other.
There are several key things to understand here.
(1) This is a contrived "failure". 10 has ample undrawn funds in its existing banking arrangement, and has made no effort to find alternative sources should it not wish to use any more of the existing loan arrangement.
(2) The "failure" has been contrived by two large, wealthy shareholders so as to be (they hope) able to buy the rest of the company at a large discount to market value, or (more likely) pressure the Feds to further weaken the already very weak media cross-ownership laws.
(3) In the longer term, it matters little. Free to air TV died years ago. It's still walking and talking out of habit, not because it has a beating heart. The zombie companies still operating in the free to air market are on borrowed time. Even old people are switching off in their tens of thousands now. Why would anyone want to watch CH 10 when they have so many superior alternatives? The only people I know who still watch free to air TV are my parents, and they are in their eighties. And they only watch the ABC and SBS. Even they are starting to use on-demand sources now. Most younger people switched off years ago. |
I just saying how Channel 10 and All Media claim that the ONLY reason they fail is because of Piracy and I say that is NOT true.
Then other people took it the other way
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I am Da Man |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| ronrat wrote: | | I am not cheering for movie studios making millions having had the movie paid for by product placement. Don't cry when I see a Cambodian garment worker sell me a shirt for 5 bucks that the company (Abercrombie and Fitch is one) sell in New York for near 200 bucks whilst paying the Cambodian worker about a dollar to make it. But Dave never ever use the excuse you are not stealing. You are. . |
There is a Difference between Commerical Piracy and Non-Commerical Piracy and in some countries it is a Difference.
Commerical is you are making Money off someone else's Copyright(Would Never Do That) and the other is for Personal Use
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I am Da Man |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | I just saying how Channel 10 and All Media claim that the ONLY reason they fail is because of Piracy and I say that is NOT true. |
Of course it is not true. Not even remotely true. Only an ignorant, credulous fool could believe otherwise.
| Dave The Man wrote: | | Then other people took it the other way |
They raced off to argue about the morality of piracy which, frankly, was pretty dumb seeing as the troubles of CH 10 have nothing whatever to do with piracy. It doesn't matter whether you think piracy is good or bad: either way it is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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