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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Absolutely it is, why do we need to make a point about their religion when many of the people in the tower were also Muslim?
| Quote: | | Residents have told of how they didn't hear alarms as the fire swept through the 24-storey tower block in West London. But they were instead alerted to the blaze by fellow residents, some of whom may have been Muslim people who were awake early in the morning because of Ramadan and were among the first to notice the fire. |
From the article you posted.
The fire started about 1am, how fkn early to Muslims get up for Ramadan?
I noted to someone else, when something like this happens, there's a group of people who automatically assume Muslims were involved. Around half of this group are hovering waiting to throw rocks, the other half are hoping Muslims weren't involved, as if this somehow makes it better for the people who died. I personally find both sides equally distasteful.
Jumping for joy at people dying and saying, "See, it wasn't Muslims (this time) and some may have been helpful" proves what?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ What on earth are you talking about?  Why would I be 'jumping for joy' about this tragedy not being caused by Muslims when any moron could have worked that out in five seconds?
Frankly, I don't think the article I posted needs context. It shows a multicultural community coming together and supporting each other in a time of crisis. Why does that need to be justified?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | ^ What on earth are you talking about? Why would I be 'jumping for joy' about this tragedy not being caused by Muslims when any moron could have worked that out in five seconds?
Frankly, I don't think the article I posted needs context. It shows a multicultural community coming together and supporting each other in a time of crisis. Why does that need to be justified? |
So the many people I saw on Facebook expressing pleasure that this wasn't caused by Muslims are all morons?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Given people are quick to highlight the problems within a minority of those who follow Islam whenever a Muslim does something wrong (hey I'm guilty at times) I don't see why the opposite can't be appreciated when we're reminded that most Muslims are just normal people like the rest of us, often flawed, sometimes struggling with the stresses of daily life but also capable of the same acts of compassion and being victims of terrible tragedy not of there making.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Well said, Swoop.
| stui magpie wrote: | | So the many people I saw on Facebook expressing pleasure that this wasn't caused by Muslims are all morons? |
No, I was saying that any moron would have quickly realised the cause of the fire had nothing to do with Muslims or terrorism. That's not quite the same as being relieved that it wasn't, though I'd question the need to bring it up in this context.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Mugwump wrote: | | We know very little about the cause and/or exacerbating factors behind this tragedy. |
Nonsense. Blind Freddie can see that the cladding burned like a bloody candle. Notice that both Swoop and I independently stated this BEFORE there were any news reports saying it. It was poke-your-eye-with-a-sharp-stick obvious. (Disclaimer: it is possible that there were news reports about the cladding somewhere prior to my post or Swoop's. Swoop can speak for himself, but I assure you that I didn't have or need any extra information other than a couple of photographs of the fire at that time. I first read news reports about it some time later.)
The cause of the disaster is 100% plain and obvious. Cheap and nasty building materials. There is photographic proof.
Now there will be and should be an extensive, careful enquiry sifting all the relevant facts and taking many months. It will doubtless throw light on the surrounding factors and make careful recommendations.
However the basic cause is absolutely clear. They coated the building in highly inflammable plastic because it was cheap. Why they were able to get away with doing that, we don't know.
We can of course guess: lack of regulation and proper oversight, almost certainly caused in turn by two decades of selfish neo-liberal government slashing vital services one at a time, and outsourcing other vital services to shonky private get-rich-quick businessmen. That's what has happened here, it's a pretty fair guess that it is the same only worse in the UK.
A proper inquiry - something akin to the Bushfires Royal Commission in Victoria, or the Child Sex Abuse one nationally - will bring all of that to light. Whether this inquiry will be a real one or a smooth-things-over cover-up, you are in a much better position to judge than I am.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Given people are quick to highlight the problems within a minority of those who follow Islam whenever a Muslim does something wrong (hey I'm guilty at times) I don't see why the opposite can't be appreciated when we're reminded that most Muslims are just normal people like the rest of us, often flawed, sometimes struggling with the stresses of daily life but also capable of the same acts of compassion and being victims of terrible tragedy not of there making. |
maybe I'm just wired differently. When i see a news article about how a Catholic did something good with Children i don't feel compelled to post it to prove they aren't all paedophiles.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | This is just a fine example of the perfection of conservative deregulation in action. A storm created at the confluence of a tendency towards laissez-faire building "regulation", steady reductions in building inspection staffing levels and efficiency, a fervent desire to ignore obviously unacceptable breaches of standards and a generous disregard for the living circumstances of people who aren't actually rich. |
Nailed it. Spot on.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | We know very little about the cause and/or exacerbating factors behind this tragedy. |
Nonsense. Blind Freddie can see that the cladding burned like a bloody candle. Notice that both Swoop and I independently stated this BEFORE there were any news reports saying it. It was poke-your-eye-with-a-sharp-stick obvious. (Disclaimer: it is possible that there were news reports about the cladding somewhere prior to my post or Swoop's. Swoop can speak for himself, but I assure you that I didn't have or need any extra information other than a couple of photographs of the fire at that time. I first read news reports about it some time later.)
The cause of the disaster is 100% plain and obvious. Cheap and nasty building materials. There is photographic proof.
Now there will be and should be an extensive, careful enquiry sifting all the relevant facts and taking many months. It will doubtless throw light on the surrounding factors and make careful recommendations.
However the basic cause is absolutely clear. They coated the building in highly inflammable plastic because it was cheap. Why they were able to get away with doing that, we don't know.
We can of course guess: lack of regulation and proper oversight, almost certainly caused in turn by two decades of selfish neo-liberal government slashing vital services one at a time, and outsourcing other vital services to shonky private get-rich-quick businessmen. That's what has happened here, it's a pretty fair guess that it is the same only worse in the UK.
A proper inquiry - something akin to the Bushfires Royal Commission in Victoria, or the Child Sex Abuse one nationally - will bring all of that to light. Whether this inquiry will be a real one or a smooth-things-over cover-up, you are in a much better position to judge than I am. |
There's a reason blind freddy was named that.
One article I read indeed blamed the cladding, for how the fire spread up the inside of the building so quickly, well before the outside caught on fire. Something to do with it's insulative properties
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i dare say the truth will come out but I'm also fairly sure that won't stop the speculation.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Look at the video. You can see it for yourself. The outside of the building is burning like buggery.
The mechanics of it are simple.
1: The flammable plastic is protected only by a very thin layer of aluminium.
2: Aluminium is a good conductor of heat, so as soon as it gets hot, that heat passes through into the plastic, which melts.
3: The aluminium is now unsupported by the plastic and is able to twist and warp - which it does immediately (because of the heating).
4: Now the plastic is no longer protected by even so much as a thin layer of aluminium: it drips out and burns like crazy.
5: Large slabs of burning cladding fall off into the street, spreading the fire further.
6: The fire races to the top of the building. Nothing can stop it.
7: Everything inside the building catches fire too.
8: Building regulator ducks for cover, pretends knew nothing about it.
9: Developer cashes in insurance money, goes on to next highly profitable job.
10: Residents cash in chips, pass on to next world.
Rinse, lather, and repeat.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| You forgot to mention in that list that the enquiry will struggle with various "difficult" issues that it finds "troubling", including the lack of a sprinkler system, but will ultimately conclude that a poorly-serviced toaster on level 2 was the cause of the fire. Careful and thorough recommendations will then be made exhorting people to understand the serious risks that can flow from failing to ensure that they service their white goods regularly. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ Sigh.
You are right, of course, though I wish you weren't.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| stui magpie wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Given people are quick to highlight the problems within a minority of those who follow Islam whenever a Muslim does something wrong (hey I'm guilty at times) I don't see why the opposite can't be appreciated when we're reminded that most Muslims are just normal people like the rest of us, often flawed, sometimes struggling with the stresses of daily life but also capable of the same acts of compassion and being victims of terrible tragedy not of there making. |
maybe I'm just wired differently. When i see a news article about how a Catholic did something good with Children i don't feel compelled to post it to prove they aren't all paedophiles. |
The original article and David's reference of it weren't aimed at people like you who have enough intelligence and open mindedness to not solely rely on Fox news or The Sun to form there view on Muslims.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Given people are quick to highlight the problems within a minority of those who follow Islam whenever a Muslim does something wrong (hey I'm guilty at times) I don't see why the opposite can't be appreciated when we're reminded that most Muslims are just normal people like the rest of us, often flawed, sometimes struggling with the stresses of daily life but also capable of the same acts of compassion and being victims of terrible tragedy not of there making. |
I agree.
Although I've often wondered in certain situations why colour, religion, age, hell even sex get added to a comment, right now it's a fair point.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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