London Tower Fire

[swoop42]

What a truly terrifying and tragic event for the poor souls trapped in that building.

I see a resident group have raised concerns about poor fire emergency management in recent years.

I'm concerned there are reports of the fire spreading rapidly on the outside of the tower.

Was is that cheap substandard Chinese building material we've been warned about adorning many an Australian high rise?

Not surprisingly it's to early to know how many people have lost there lives and one hopes the circumstances around the cause of the fire isn't suspicious or the start of a new way of implementing a terrorist act on vulnerable civilians.

[think positive]

Awful, my cousin in London just posted this on Facebook. just how much can Britain go through right now?

[stui magpie]

Yeah, you look at the vision on the news and it's fkn scary.

If you're in a high rise and a fire starts below you like that, you are screwed.

There's obviously building regulations that are supposed to stop that, but fire burns up and if it doesn't work...........

The only positive thing for the people trapped is they probably died of smoke inhalation before the fire got them, so even if they died in terror there was no physical pain.

[swoop42]

It would appear that recently installed cladding on the outside of the building caused the fire to spread rapidly upwards.

Remember how that's been an issue in Australia in recent years with concerns about cheap Chinese building materials?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-27/cheap-cladding-turns-apartments-into-time-bombs/6501716

[stui magpie]

Anything the CFMEU comes out with I automatically disagree with, but I'll take on board the points from actual experts

Maybe something as simple as before you can import building products (and I'd count cladding as one) it has to pass a test in Australia to ensure it meets code.

I suppose that doesn't stop overseas factories from sending a sample that meets code for assessment then making lots of cheap shit that doesn't.

[Tannin]

[Pi]

They may have been using some internal windows made of PVC that they claim are compliant with fire regulations (PVC window frames are more common in UK and Europe than here).
The offending material is likely to be a variant of ThermHex, two thin Aluminium panels with plastic honeycomb in between. Still amazingly the building hasn't collapsed in its own foot print yet.

[HAL]

Like who, specifically?

[Pies4shaw]

This is just a fine example of the perfection of conservative deregulation in action. A storm created at the confluence of a tendency towards laissez-faire building "regulation", steady reductions in building inspection staffing levels and efficiency, a fervent desire to ignore obviously unacceptable breaches of standards and a generous disregard for the living circumstances of people who aren't actually rich.

[HAL]

What kind of a fine example of the perfection of conservative deregulation in action is it?

[Mugwump]

We know very little about the cause and/or exacerbating factors behind this tragedy. That appears no hindrance to those who are certain about the causes and the political lessons from 12500 miles away. I think it would be desirable to await the conclusions of the inquiry that will no doubt be held. It is a truly horrible and wrenching thing that has happened and I don't think it is seemly to play politics with it.

It is not a political point to note that this building is some 50 years old, dating from a period when Britain faced both a housing crisis as hangover of the Second World War and the first waves of immigration, and severe financial difficulties as it adjusted to post imperial trade and interest on war debts. These buildings were built quickly and cheaply and anyone who has seen the inside of the tower blocks created in that depressing time will know that building standards were not high. So whether the cause is original, or due to particular modifications, or lack of inspection standards, or negligence or ignorance, or sheer bad luck is impossible to know at this point.

I recall that one of these inner-London tower blocks collapsed in one corner in the late 1960s, killing many people. So presumptions about modern council procurement and management practices may be accurate, or they may not. Presumably critical lessons and some bad practices will be uncovered.

[David]

Seems like many of the residents were saved by Muslims up early for Ramadan:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-fire-muslim-wake-early-ramadan-fast-grenfell-tower-resident-live-save-north-kensington-a7789111.html

[Mugwump]

^ why am I surprised that The (supposedly) Independent should play cheap identity politics with even an abominable tragedy like this ?

[David]

A good news story about British Muslims helping their community and all you can come up with is anger at the newspaper for publishing it?

Perhaps you're right and there is a nefarious agenda at play here of "oh look, here's an opportunity to show that Muslims aren't terrible people after all". That you would get offended by that in a time when every terror attack in the west seems to prompt a debate about refugees and sentiments like this are commonplace is pretty bewildering.

Don't complain about tragedies being politicised when you and others happily politicise them all the time. As it happens, this tragedy is inherently political: just ask the residents who called for building safety standards to be improved for years but were ignored by management and local councillors. There will be a lot of political debate and fall-out as a result of this tragedy, as there should be. The small details about the quick thinking and generosity of Muslim residents and neighbours barely rate as politicisation in comparison.

[Dave The Man]

Good Reason to buy an Apartment off the Ground