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| Nathan Buckley - What should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now (not playing finals, get started on a replacement) |
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25% |
[ 35 ] |
| Sack him end of season (not the man but why concede the year now?) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Sack him on the run home (if the wheels have really fallen off) |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm still in his corner) |
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10% |
[ 14 ] |
| Decide end of season (He's just not up to it) |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm honestly undecided) |
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11% |
[ 16 ] |
| Re-sign him on the run home (fait accompli, just pick our moment) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
| Re-sign him end of season (he's the man, but no need to rush) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Re-sign him now (he WILL be our next premiership coach!) |
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18% |
[ 25 ] |
| I really don't know (but I will back the club whatever it decides) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 136 |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| Post subject: Re: A close examination of the facts behind Collingwood's wo |  |
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| ROB wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | We all know our team has performed poorly in terms of wins/losses, and many people it seems, are quick to lay the blame for this at the feet of our coach, Nathan Buckley. Of course, he must bear some responsibility, but a closer examination of the the facts suggest a number of key organisational and management issues are chiefly responsible for our declining fortunes of late. Even if you don't agree with it all (and I don't), it's a pretty well balanced and insightful article.
https://sportingchancemag.com/its-not-all-black-and-white-with-buckley-412cd7ba1802 |
Excellent objective article. I note this passage "After just 129 games into his coaching career, Buckley has won more games than Alistair Clarkson, Mark Thompson and (perhaps most importantly) Mick Malthouse at the same stage of their coaching careers." which would seem to be at odds to many posters opinions of his performance as being the worst of any coach forever etc... |
You don't think being handed a 20-2 machine overinflated his wins for the first couple of years? It takes time to destroy a team. Look at his record ... 6 years of constant decline. Stop and think about that ... every single year the teams record is worse for 6 years. Every Year.
That record means you can mount an argument that he is the worst coach in the history of the game |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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^To be bluntly fair, whether this inconvenient truth offends you or not, the absolute fact is that 3 of those seasons were ruined by massive long term injuries, knee recos etc, to guys like Reid, and many others. We at times battled to field a team, like that game v the Lions where we had to recall a guy for the night game, who had played VFL that same afternoon. Bucks never had a fully fit and healthy list to choose from, not once, three years destroyed by the injury curse. This is a fact, a fact, and any coach would struggle under those conditions. I'm not saying he has coached us so great this season, and I think he will pay the price, but history has not been kind to his tenure, in previous years.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I get it. teams coached us so great this season. Is that what you think? |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | ^To be bluntly fair, whether this inconvenient truth offends you or not, the absolute fact is that 3 of those seasons were ruined by massive long term injuries, knee recos etc, to guys like Reid, and many others. We at times battled to field a team, like that game v the Lions where we had to recall a guy for the night game, who had played VFL that same afternoon. Bucks never had a fully fit and healthy list to choose from, not once, three years destroyed by the injury curse. This is a fact, a fact, and any coach would struggle under those conditions. I'm not saying he has coached us so great this season, and I think he will pay the price, but history has not been kind to his tenure, in previous years. |
I've never heard so many excuses peddled for a failed coach? Every club/coach has injuries? Every club over time has to deal with that. In the end the responsibility of results sit with the coach first and foremost. That's life in AFL football. I also believe the club needs to move on from this handover - it is holding the club back 6 years on. It was a mistake, but so what? I just don't know why Nathan Buckley has become more important that the club. |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Buckley's devil donuts smell like jam donuts.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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If injuries were the reason, you would see a dip in the wins and then a rise afterwards.
There has never been a rise under Bucks. So if it was injuries, why is our record now even worse |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | If injuries were the reason, you would see a dip in the wins and then a rise afterwards.
There has never been a rise under Bucks. So if it was injuries, why is our record now even worse |
The injuries were multiple, and ongoing, one came back, one went out, never had a settled side over a long period, it just killed us for 3 yrs, all teams get injuries, but ours were chronic, ongoing, never ending. It is what it is.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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After 6 years at the helm Bucks record speaks for itself, everything else is irrelevant.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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This merry go round goes round and round and who knows when it will stop and who hops on or off.
My position from the get go was to support Buckley. I was a huge fan of him as a player but I also said I wondered if Buckley the genius single minded self absorbed player could be the imparter of wisdom to a team or could he accept not every player lives & breathes football like he did.
History shows and by his own admission he has had to make many changes to much of his own personal traits. I acknowledge that he has seen his weaknesses and errors and tried to rectify them but that's nothing new for Buckley he did the same as a player he sort perfection.
Being fair I give Buckley 2 years grace for the rebuild and a further 2 years for injuries but that's 4 years and we are now 6 years in and still not only see any significant sign of improvement in many respects we have seen decline.
He now has basically his list he wanted (barring the career ending injury to Swanny the departure of Beams and a couple other players who's decline for whatever reason happened unexpectedly)
The team he has now is the list he built and it's a list that isn't acheiving any results
We can change assistants at seasons end, we can get a new CEO, we can get a new football manager, we can get a new recruiting department but none of these will influence the side more than the head coach.
And that's were the responsibility starts and ends.
Buckleys the player will always be Collingwood royalty his place in our history will never be questioned his legacy as a player can never be diminished and his love of the club can never be argued with.
But Buckley the coach hasn't delivered the results required to deserve a contract extension. He may be a bit unlucky is some ways that maybe his list hasn't performed to its capabilities but that's the realm he as head coach is responsible for.
He made the statement at the end of last season it's a results driven business and wins losses count for everything and anything short of finals and he wouldn't be getting a new contract. I said at the time I thought this was a stupid comment to make. He was always going to be under pressure this season for no contract going forward and also due to is name and the club he coaches the spot light was always going to shine overly brightly.
I will always love and respect Buckley and he will alway be one of our greatest players but alas he just hasn't achieved the results needed as coach. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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/\ great, heartfelt post that sums it all up perfectly qldmagpie67
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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ROB
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Sydney
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| Post subject: Re: A close examination of the facts behind Collingwood's wo | |
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | | ROB wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | We all know our team has performed poorly in terms of wins/losses, and many people it seems, are quick to lay the blame for this at the feet of our coach, Nathan Buckley. Of course, he must bear some responsibility, but a closer examination of the the facts suggest a number of key organisational and management issues are chiefly responsible for our declining fortunes of late. Even if you don't agree with it all (and I don't), it's a pretty well balanced and insightful article.
https://sportingchancemag.com/its-not-all-black-and-white-with-buckley-412cd7ba1802 |
Excellent objective article. I note this passage "After just 129 games into his coaching career, Buckley has won more games than Alistair Clarkson, Mark Thompson and (perhaps most importantly) Mick Malthouse at the same stage of their coaching careers." which would seem to be at odds to many posters opinions of his performance as being the worst of any coach forever etc... |
You don't think being handed a 20-2 machine overinflated his wins for the first couple of years? It takes time to destroy a team. Look at his record ... 6 years of constant decline. Stop and think about that ... every single year the teams record is worse for 6 years. Every Year.
That record means you can mount an argument that he is the worst coach in the history of the game |
If, as many would like us all to think, Buckley can't coach and was just waiting to destroy/change everything that was pre his senior coaching appointment, even the 20-2 machine would decline at a greater pace than it apparently did. This is a complex issue with many moving parts and to hold one man accountable when he does not control much of what has/does occur is not right.
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Toby for President |
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ROB
Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Location: Sydney
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| Cruisinwithdids wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | ^To be bluntly fair, whether this inconvenient truth offends you or not, the absolute fact is that 3 of those seasons were ruined by massive long term injuries, knee recos etc, to guys like Reid, and many others. We at times battled to field a team, like that game v the Lions where we had to recall a guy for the night game, who had played VFL that same afternoon. Bucks never had a fully fit and healthy list to choose from, not once, three years destroyed by the injury curse. This is a fact, a fact, and any coach would struggle under those conditions. I'm not saying he has coached us so great this season, and I think he will pay the price, but history has not been kind to his tenure, in previous years. |
I've never heard so many excuses peddled for a failed coach? Every club/coach has injuries? Every club over time has to deal with that. In the end the responsibility of results sit with the coach first and foremost. That's life in AFL football. I also believe the club needs to move on from this handover - it is holding the club back 6 years on. It was a mistake, but so what? I just don't know why Nathan Buckley has become more important that the club. |
True - every club has to deal with it. Just maybe that points to the lack of foresight and list management by the previous regime to ensure sufficient quality players were available to overcome injuries to key, experienced players such as Reid - history and comment dictates that was not the case - Buckley's fault or MM and co's fault?? I think I know the answer and so do you.
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Toby for President |
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| That's a very imaginative argument - Ben Reid's soft tissue injury history is Mick Malthouse's fault and the reason for Nathan Buckley's horrendous coaching record? I hope you're not serious. Injuries have nothing to do with Buckleys coachiing record. The club needs to move on from this botched handover and needs to move on from a failed coach and built a football team based on youth the future. It's about the team, not about Nathan Buckley. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | This merry go round goes round and round and who knows when it will stop and who hops on or off.
My position from the get go was to support Buckley. I was a huge fan of him as a player but I also said I wondered if Buckley the genius single minded self absorbed player could be the imparter of wisdom to a team or could he accept not every player lives & breathes football like he did.
History shows and by his own admission he has had to make many changes to much of his own personal traits. I acknowledge that he has seen his weaknesses and errors and tried to rectify them but that's nothing new for Buckley he did the same as a player he sort perfection.
Being fair I give Buckley 2 years grace for the rebuild and a further 2 years for injuries but that's 4 years and we are now 6 years in and still not only see any significant sign of improvement in many respects we have seen decline.
He now has basically his list he wanted (barring the career ending injury to Swanny the departure of Beams and a couple other players who's decline for whatever reason happened unexpectedly)
The team he has now is the list he built and it's a list that isn't acheiving any results
We can change assistants at seasons end, we can get a new CEO, we can get a new football manager, we can get a new recruiting department but none of these will influence the side more than the head coach.
And that's were the responsibility starts and ends.
Buckleys the player will always be Collingwood royalty his place in our history will never be questioned his legacy as a player can never be diminished and his love of the club can never be argued with.
But Buckley the coach hasn't delivered the results required to deserve a contract extension. He may be a bit unlucky is some ways that maybe his list hasn't performed to its capabilities but that's the realm he as head coach is responsible for.
He made the statement at the end of last season it's a results driven business and wins losses count for everything and anything short of finals and he wouldn't be getting a new contract. I said at the time I thought this was a stupid comment to make. He was always going to be under pressure this season for no contract going forward and also due to is name and the club he coaches the spot light was always going to shine overly brightly.
I will always love and respect Buckley and he will alway be one of our greatest players but alas he just hasn't achieved the results needed as coach. |
Yes, pretty well said, lots of good points there for sure. Part of me does wonder, how he would go with one more season, considering Ton Shaw said he reckons Bucks is now "coaching better than ever ", his words. But, on win and loss ratio, he may well not get that chance to prove it. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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kymbo5@yahoo.com.au
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | After 6 years at the helm Bucks record speaks for itself, everything else is irrelevant. |
Yeah, not even facts as pointed out by Rudeboy. You, and the rest of the ant-Bucks group don't want to hear any facts that don't suit your argument. Narrow minded.
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kymbo |
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