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| Nathan Buckley - What should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now (not playing finals, get started on a replacement) |
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25% |
[ 35 ] |
| Sack him end of season (not the man but why concede the year now?) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Sack him on the run home (if the wheels have really fallen off) |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm still in his corner) |
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10% |
[ 14 ] |
| Decide end of season (He's just not up to it) |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm honestly undecided) |
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11% |
[ 16 ] |
| Re-sign him on the run home (fait accompli, just pick our moment) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
| Re-sign him end of season (he's the man, but no need to rush) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Re-sign him now (he WILL be our next premiership coach!) |
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18% |
[ 25 ] |
| I really don't know (but I will back the club whatever it decides) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 136 |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | On AFL Game Day today Leigh Matthews said that "Collingwood have performed at about where their list should be in my view, and if Wells had played the whole year they would have one anther two or three games..."
FFS can we just appreciate that Bucks has got the best out of the team that he can, and that sometimes better than the team should have been.
He will deliver us premierships, of that I am certain. |
I'm with you ihc. I still expect Bucks to get a contract extension and coach us to our next flag. Sure, we've lost more games than we've won, but this has been due to player deficiencies not because of poor coaching. |
Would you say all of the players on the list are playing to their full potential? |
I don't think ALL the players on any team's list play to their FULL potential. However, I've been saying all season that structural weakness in terms of lack of dominant KPPs, has been the single most important factor holding back our team. Given this important structural weakness, it's a credit to Bucks that he has kept us competitive all season, despite our poor win/loss record. That suggests to me that we are on the verge of significant improvement. It's clear to me, though not to many Nicksters it seems, that the players are fully invested in Bucks' coaching style and so I think it would be a terrible mistake and a retrograde step to blame Bucks for, what to me at least, seem to be clear list management failures. Clever recruitment in the off season can quickly rectify these problems imo. |
But a lot on Nicks were saying at the end of last season we needed KPPs to replace Cloke and brown. It was glaringly obvious, and yet we got wells, a half broken mid/ small forward, and Mayne who has done zilch, and keefe is rotting in the seconds. Surely, that's on Bucks?
I get where your coming from, a couple of weeks back I agreed with you, but after watching the last couple of games, even the win, I just see an inflexibility, a refusal to try something else. A big example, getting greenwood to tag, worked a charm, hasn't really happened since! Why not? Just crazy
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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i hate carlton
Joined: 05 May 2014
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | | The goal of the coach is to win flags. To do that, you have to improve the win/loss ratio to get to finals. In the statistic of improving the win/loss ratio, Buckley is the worst coach in history of the AFL. |
The coach is but one metric in a complex measure of success and failure. There are others, but the days when Jock and the board would sack a coach because they reckon that will get them immediate success are gonnnnnnne.
Strategy and tactics are long term and short term. You cant sacrifice the long term for the short term. |
He has never improved the win/loss ratio in 6 years. That's not long enough for you? Would 7 years of failure be enough? 8? |
Step back from your focus on one club and one coach.
There are 18 coaches and 18 teams. Apply the same metrics across all teams and assess the results. Here's a hint - since 2012 there has been three winning teams and three winning coaches: sydney, hawthorn, hawthorn, hawthorn, the Dogs.
Bucks has been coach since 2012.
If anyone can honestly say that its Nathan Buckleys fault that we didn't take a flag home against the players in those teams - then I will go on a hot date with Vin Catoggio and comb his hair lovingly.
Bucks will deliver us premierships, as long as we have the right cattle on the paddock. He has delivered better results out of the list than we really warrant.
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He's kicking pineapples!
My favourite nicks thread (Laugh at Carlscum): http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=66021&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | On AFL Game Day today Leigh Matthews said that "Collingwood have performed at about where their list should be in my view, and if Wells had played the whole year they would have one anther two or three games..."
FFS can we just appreciate that Bucks has got the best out of the team that he can, and that sometimes better than the team should have been.
He will deliver us premierships, of that I am certain. |
I'm with you ihc. I still expect Bucks to get a contract extension and coach us to our next flag. Sure, we've lost more games than we've won, but this has been due to player deficiencies not because of poor coaching. |
Would you say all of the players on the list are playing to their full potential? |
I don't think ALL the players on any team's list play to their FULL potential. However, I've been saying all season that structural weakness in terms of lack of dominant KPPs, has been the single most important factor holding back our team. Given this important structural weakness, it's a credit to Bucks that he has kept us competitive all season, despite our poor win/loss record. That suggests to me that we are on the verge of significant improvement. It's clear to me, though not to many Nicksters it seems, that the players are fully invested in Bucks' coaching style and so I think it would be a terrible mistake and a retrograde step to blame Bucks for, what to me at least, seem to be clear list management failures. Clever recruitment in the off season can quickly rectify these problems imo. |
But a lot on Nicks were saying at the end of last season we needed KPPs to replace Cloke and brown. It was glaringly obvious, and yet we got wells, a half broken mid/ small forward, and Mayne who has done zilch, and keefe is rotting in the seconds. Surely, that's on Bucks?
I get where your coming from, a couple of weeks back I agreed with you, but after watching the last couple of games, even the win, I just see an inflexibility, a refusal to try something else. A big example, getting greenwood to tag, worked a charm, hasn't really happened since! Why not? Just crazy |
I think you are forgetting we recruited several KPPs, including McLarty, Shade, Lynch, McCarthy as well as taking back Keeffe last year, so it's clear that the club was trying to overcome this weakness. Apart from Shade (who I never rated) and Keeffe, the rest have youth on their side, so hopefully they will begin to blossom next year. |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | On AFL Game Day today Leigh Matthews said that "Collingwood have performed at about where their list should be in my view, and if Wells had played the whole year they would have one anther two or three games..."
FFS can we just appreciate that Bucks has got the best out of the team that he can, and that sometimes better than the team should have been.
He will deliver us premierships, of that I am certain. |
I'm with you ihc. I still expect Bucks to get a contract extension and coach us to our next flag. Sure, we've lost more games than we've won, but this has been due to player deficiencies not because of poor coaching. |
Would you say all of the players on the list are playing to their full potential? |
I don't think ALL the players on any team's list play to their FULL potential. However, I've been saying all season that structural weakness in terms of lack of dominant KPPs, has been the single most important factor holding back our team. Given this important structural weakness, it's a credit to Bucks that he has kept us competitive all season, despite our poor win/loss record. That suggests to me that we are on the verge of significant improvement. It's clear to me, though not to many Nicksters it seems, that the players are fully invested in Bucks' coaching style and so I think it would be a terrible mistake and a retrograde step to blame Bucks for, what to me at least, seem to be clear list management failures. Clever recruitment in the off season can quickly rectify these problems imo. |
But a lot on Nicks were saying at the end of last season we needed KPPs to replace Cloke and brown. It was glaringly obvious, and yet we got wells, a half broken mid/ small forward, and Mayne who has done zilch, and keefe is rotting in the seconds. Surely, that's on Bucks?
I get where your coming from, a couple of weeks back I agreed with you, but after watching the last couple of games, even the win, I just see an inflexibility, a refusal to try something else. A big example, getting greenwood to tag, worked a charm, hasn't really happened since! Why not? Just crazy |
I think you are forgetting we recruited several KPPs, including McLarty, Shade, Lynch, McCarthy as well as taking back Keeffe last year, so it's clear that the club was trying to overcome this weakness. Apart from Shade (who I never rated) and Keeffe, the rest have youth on their side, so hopefully they will begin to blossom next year. |
Another year of blind faith is what you are asking for.
Sorry if you don't replace the most failed coach in AFL history then you are not in the business of being a football club - in any competition.
Times Up !
Let him coach elsewhere (if the WAFL will take him), prove himself (cough cough) then he will be welcomed back with open arms.
This club is too much loved to be the play thing of a couple of egomaniacs, honouring primary school boy promises to each other.. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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It's beyond a joke. Our club is a joke. I'm really sick of it.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | It's beyond a joke. Our club is a joke. I'm really sick of it. |
So Wolfie are you saying your open to a contract extension but it must have some performances clauses in it 😂😂😂😂😂 |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | It's beyond a joke. Our club is a joke. I'm really sick of it. |
So Wolfie are you saying your open to a contract extension but it must have some performances clauses in it 😂😂😂😂😂 |
Starting to feel that way QldMagpie67, I honestly don't think I can do another season of having zero hope. This whole situation is massively depressing.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | It's beyond a joke. Our club is a joke. I'm really sick of it. |
So Wolfie are you saying your open to a contract extension but it must have some performances clauses in it 😂😂😂😂😂 |
Starting to feel that way QldMagpie67, I honestly don't think I can do another season of having zero hope. This whole situation is massively depressing. |
Mate I went to the game Saturday and even though we won I saw enough to think we really have a huge lack of tactical awareness in the coaches box as well as a huge gulf in leadership on the field
When the weather turned we just couldn't adapt to the conditions again like every time this season.
We won because they sucked worse than us and lost 2 key players.
We didn't win because we were better coached or played a superior style
Don't get me wrong I'm happy we won made my day a lot better and I always want to win but for mine it just papers over the cracks we have as team.
I'll stick by my prediction he will see out the year and be let go with dignity and grace of that afforded to a club legend.
Really pointless replacing him now wouldn't make a lick of difference IMO |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| regan is true fullback wrote: | Historian Shelby Foote said that Gettysburg was the terrible price the South paid for Robert E Lee.
Is the Malthouse/Buckley handover our Gettysburg? |
You send Pickett's Brigade on one misjudged charge and you never hear the end of it.....
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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Collingwood Crackerjack wrote:
| Quote: | | You send Pickett's Brigade on one misjudged charge and you never hear the end of it..... |
and like games against GWS and Melbourne, the 2014 finals series, the 2012 preliminary final and the past 6 years in general they neeaarly got away with it... |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | On AFL Game Day today Leigh Matthews said that "Collingwood have performed at about where their list should be in my view, and if Wells had played the whole year they would have one anther two or three games..."
FFS can we just appreciate that Bucks has got the best out of the team that he can, and that sometimes better than the team should have been.
He will deliver us premierships, of that I am certain. |
I'm with you ihc. I still expect Bucks to get a contract extension and coach us to our next flag. Sure, we've lost more games than we've won, but this has been due to player deficiencies not because of poor coaching. |
Would you say all of the players on the list are playing to their full potential? |
I don't think ALL the players on any team's list play to their FULL potential. However, I've been saying all season that structural weakness in terms of lack of dominant KPPs, has been the single most important factor holding back our team. Given this important structural weakness, it's a credit to Bucks that he has kept us competitive all season, despite our poor win/loss record. That suggests to me that we are on the verge of significant improvement. It's clear to me, though not to many Nicksters it seems, that the players are fully invested in Bucks' coaching style and so I think it would be a terrible mistake and a retrograde step to blame Bucks for, what to me at least, seem to be clear list management failures. Clever recruitment in the off season can quickly rectify these problems imo. |
But a lot on Nicks were saying at the end of last season we needed KPPs to replace Cloke and brown. It was glaringly obvious, and yet we got wells, a half broken mid/ small forward, and Mayne who has done zilch, and keefe is rotting in the seconds. Surely, that's on Bucks?
I get where your coming from, a couple of weeks back I agreed with you, but after watching the last couple of games, even the win, I just see an inflexibility, a refusal to try something else. A big example, getting greenwood to tag, worked a charm, hasn't really happened since! Why not? Just crazy |
I think you are forgetting we recruited several KPPs, including McLarty, Shade, Lynch, McCarthy as well as taking back Keeffe last year, so it's clear that the club was trying to overcome this weakness. Apart from Shade (who I never rated) and Keeffe, the rest have youth on their side, so hopefully they will begin to blossom next year. |
But what's the point having KPP's on your list if the coach doesn't play them? The first thing the coach did when he took over was dispense with the three talls in the forward line. Dawes was ruined having to play as a ruckman. Then it was Quentin Lynch in the twilight of his career who had to ruck and play forward. Then it was Keeffe who was thrown from the backline to the forward line to ruck and play forward in the elimination final against Port. Then it was just play one KPP in the forward line and use Fasolo or Greenwood as the CHF. Reid gets dropped because he prefers to play a utility at CHB. Schade who beat Franklin gets dropped for no reason and has no confidence in the VFL. After showing faith in Keeffe in an elimination final now Buckley has no faith in playing Keeffe now. Now we find out that Rendall was overruled in 2014 draft in wanting to recruit Peter Wright. Stewart who we could have got for virtually nothing wasn't deemed good enough for our list.
Why would anyone think that Max Lynch, McLarty or McCarthy will get games next year even if they develop well as players, when the coach shows his preference for building a list full of mids and playing as many mids in the senior 22 as he possibly can, even to the point of playing mids as key forwards and utilities as key backs? |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| i hate carlton wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | | The goal of the coach is to win flags. To do that, you have to improve the win/loss ratio to get to finals. In the statistic of improving the win/loss ratio, Buckley is the worst coach in history of the AFL. |
The coach is but one metric in a complex measure of success and failure. There are others, but the days when Jock and the board would sack a coach because they reckon that will get them immediate success are gonnnnnnne.
Strategy and tactics are long term and short term. You cant sacrifice the long term for the short term. |
He has never improved the win/loss ratio in 6 years. That's not long enough for you? Would 7 years of failure be enough? 8? |
Step back from your focus on one club and one coach.
There are 18 coaches and 18 teams. Apply the same metrics across all teams and assess the results. Here's a hint - since 2012 there has been three winning teams and three winning coaches: sydney, hawthorn, hawthorn, hawthorn, the Dogs.
Bucks has been coach since 2012.
If anyone can honestly say that its Nathan Buckleys fault that we didn't take a flag home against the players in those teams - then I will go on a hot date with Vin Catoggio and comb his hair lovingly.
Bucks will deliver us premierships, as long as we have the right cattle on the paddock. He has delivered better results out of the list than we really warrant. |
Compare the metrics ... Buckley is the only coach to have 5 seasons where the win/loss record declined every single year. He stands alone. Never mind flags, he cant even improve the number of wins in a season.
He is staring down the barrel of 6 years of decline.
Sorry you dont like those facts. |
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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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From an article in the HUN
"Key defender Tyson Goldsack said coach Nathan Buckley was in the coaching form of his career and endorsed his continuing tenure."
You know what maybe I have misjudged Bucks all this time.
Maybe he just has 45 dumb arses on the list that just don't get it.........
_________________
Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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| Quote: | "Key defender Tyson Goldsack said coach Nathan Buckley was in the coaching form of his career and endorsed his continuing tenure."
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We had another coach who was in the coaching form of his career, and look what happened to him! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | On AFL Game Day today Leigh Matthews said that "Collingwood have performed at about where their list should be in my view, and if Wells had played the whole year they would have one anther two or three games..."
FFS can we just appreciate that Bucks has got the best out of the team that he can, and that sometimes better than the team should have been.
He will deliver us premierships, of that I am certain. |
I'm with you ihc. I still expect Bucks to get a contract extension and coach us to our next flag. Sure, we've lost more games than we've won, but this has been due to player deficiencies not because of poor coaching. |
Would you say all of the players on the list are playing to their full potential? |
I don't think ALL the players on any team's list play to their FULL potential. However, I've been saying all season that structural weakness in terms of lack of dominant KPPs, has been the single most important factor holding back our team. Given this important structural weakness, it's a credit to Bucks that he has kept us competitive all season, despite our poor win/loss record. That suggests to me that we are on the verge of significant improvement. It's clear to me, though not to many Nicksters it seems, that the players are fully invested in Bucks' coaching style and so I think it would be a terrible mistake and a retrograde step to blame Bucks for, what to me at least, seem to be clear list management failures. Clever recruitment in the off season can quickly rectify these problems imo. |
But a lot on Nicks were saying at the end of last season we needed KPPs to replace Cloke and brown. It was glaringly obvious, and yet we got wells, a half broken mid/ small forward, and Mayne who has done zilch, and keefe is rotting in the seconds. Surely, that's on Bucks?
I get where your coming from, a couple of weeks back I agreed with you, but after watching the last couple of games, even the win, I just see an inflexibility, a refusal to try something else. A big example, getting greenwood to tag, worked a charm, hasn't really happened since! Why not? Just crazy |
I think you are forgetting we recruited several KPPs, including McLarty, Shade, Lynch, McCarthy as well as taking back Keeffe last year, so it's clear that the club was trying to overcome this weakness. Apart from Shade (who I never rated) and Keeffe, the rest have youth on their side, so hopefully they will begin to blossom next year. |
But what's the point having KPP's on your list if the coach doesn't play them? The first thing the coach did when he took over was dispense with the three talls in the forward line. Dawes was ruined having to play as a ruckman. Then it was Quentin Lynch in the twilight of his career who had to ruck and play forward. Then it was Keeffe who was thrown from the backline to the forward line to ruck and play forward in the elimination final against Port. Then it was just play one KPP in the forward line and use Fasolo or Greenwood as the CHF. Reid gets dropped because he prefers to play a utility at CHB. Schade who beat Franklin gets dropped for no reason and has no confidence in the VFL. After showing faith in Keeffe in an elimination final now Buckley has no faith in playing Keeffe now. Now we find out that Rendall was overruled in 2014 draft in wanting to recruit Peter Wright. Stewart who we could have got for virtually nothing wasn't deemed good enough for our list.
Why would anyone think that Max Lynch, McLarty or McCarthy will get games next year even if they develop well as players, when the coach shows his preference for building a list full of mids and playing as many mids in the senior 22 as he possibly can, even to the point of playing mids as key forwards and utilities as key backs? |
I admire your passion, but not your impatience BIFC. Everyone knows that it generally takes KPPs 2-3 years or even more, before they become AFL ready. There's a good chance McLarty will get some senior games next year, but no-one else looks on the immediate agenda imo. Also, right now I reckon Dunn and Goldsack are holding down the defensive KP spots admirably with Reid and Moore doing the same up forward. Which of these would you drop to play Keeffe? The fact is, our KPPs in the VFL are not doing enough to demand a spot in the team. |
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