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| Nathan Buckley - What should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now (not playing finals, get started on a replacement) |
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25% |
[ 35 ] |
| Sack him end of season (not the man but why concede the year now?) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Sack him on the run home (if the wheels have really fallen off) |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm still in his corner) |
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10% |
[ 14 ] |
| Decide end of season (He's just not up to it) |
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6% |
[ 9 ] |
| Decide end of season (I'm honestly undecided) |
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11% |
[ 16 ] |
| Re-sign him on the run home (fait accompli, just pick our moment) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
| Re-sign him end of season (he's the man, but no need to rush) |
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8% |
[ 12 ] |
| Re-sign him now (he WILL be our next premiership coach!) |
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18% |
[ 25 ] |
| I really don't know (but I will back the club whatever it decides) |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 136 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| E wrote: | i think two facts decide this debate.
1. His players are trying there arses off. A coach who has lost the playing group CANNOt get that level of commitment from his team.
2. Although the game plan we have isn't working 100% of the time, we are starting to see beautiful football in patches now and i believe that the way we are playing will only continue to be more and more dominant for longer stretches as the players continue to work it.
I would argue that we really are just one dominant forward away from being an extremely dangerous football team. What a shame Elliot went down when he did because the forward line had just about clicked when comprised of Moore, DeGoey, Elliot and Faz with cameos from others. Those 4 are deadly shots for goal (Faz seems to be recovering from his early season troubles which we never saw before this year and the other 3 are incredibly reliable).
All in all, with those two ingredients in place, a coach should be feeling the love from fans and the club.
I know it has taken a long time to get here, but there are valid reasons for that. For 2 years we had a post premiership list that was coming off the pinnacle (very few coaches have to live through that at the start of their career). i wouldnt count those years. Then there was a re-build that had to be done without draft picks meaning that we couldn't plug in a Franklin, a Kennedy or a Bontempelli to solve tonnes of problems. This meant it has taken 3-4 years to build out this list and as noted above, there is still a hole or two in the rebuilt team.
All in all, its been a tough grind, but i think Bucks deserves a chance to see what becomes of this list that he has just built. I'd give him 2 more years now and if in 2018, the team isn't playing for him or the game plan hasn't continued to evolve successfully, then i'd sack him a year early.
its common for an emerging group to have a year where the results dont meet the level of their playing ability (losing close ones and hurting yourself by not playing for 4 full quarters). History in the AFL (and in other sports incidentally) show that a team that suffers such heartbreak in a year follows it up with a breakout year.
PS: by way of example, in major league baseball, a stat is kept for teams that lose a massive amount of close games and this helps commentators to predict the team that will have a massive improvement ion the following year. |
Rational and truthful and 100% correct. If there was a Copeland for posting, that post gets the top vote for this round.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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Take all the could be, would be, should be out of it.
Take the "i think" out of it.
Take all the subjectivity out of it.
Shine a cold hard light ....
At the end of 2011 he takes over a team that was 20-2 for the home and away.
Pendlebury 23 years old
Swan 27
Beams 21
Sidebottom 20
Cloke 24
Record from then:
2012 17-8
2013 14-9
2014 11-11
2015 10-12
2016 9-13
2017 5-7
You can blame luck, injuries, rebuild, whatever you like. At some stage though, you have to look at the RESULTS and they say this isn't working. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | Take all the could be, would be, should be out of it.
Take the "i think" out of it.
Take all the subjectivity out of it.
Shine a cold hard light ....
At the end of 2011 he takes over a team that was 20-2 for the home and away.
Pendlebury 23 years old
Swan 27
Beams 21
Sidebottom 20
Cloke 24
Record from then:
2012 17-8
2013 14-9
2014 11-11
2015 10-12
2016 9-13
2017 5-7
You can blame luck, injuries, rebuild, whatever you like. At some stage though, you have to look at the RESULTS and they say this isn't working. |
Lone Ranger
You are poster of the week.
Very clinical.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | Take all the could be, would be, should be out of it.
Take the "i think" out of it.
Take all the subjectivity out of it.
Shine a cold hard light ....
At the end of 2011 he takes over a team that was 20-2 for the home and away.
Pendlebury 23 years old
Swan 27
Beams 21
Sidebottom 20
Cloke 24
Record from then:
2012 17-8
2013 14-9
2014 11-11
2015 10-12
2016 9-13
2017 5-7
You can blame luck, injuries, rebuild, whatever you like. At some stage though, you have to look at the RESULTS and they say this isn't working. |
I couldn't give a rats arse whether Bucks was a good coach in 2012-16. I'm just interested in whether he is coaching well now. On that score I reckon he's doing a great job with a team missing a strong tall marking forward. He has got the team playing hard and committed football week in week out, and save for some errant goal kicking, we should be sitting in the top 4 now. The RESULTS this year, demonstrate that Bucks coaching is working. Sign him up now or risk him being snapped up by Gold Coast, North or Freo at season's end. |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I couldn't give a rats arse whether Bucks was a good coach in 2012-16. I'm just interested in whether he is coaching well now. On that score I reckon he's doing a great job with a team missing a strong tall marking forward. He has got the team playing hard and committed football week in week out, and save for some errant goal kicking, we should be sitting in the top 4 now. The RESULTS this year, demonstrate that Bucks coaching is working. |
What results? We are 5-7
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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Its the old qualitative vs quantitative data argument in a nutshell.
From a quant. perspective, the WL record, and from that finals or not, is the ultimate KPI on which to measure Bucks. And although all is not lost for this year, its fair to say we will be pushing sh*t uphill to play finals from here.
From a qual. perspective, the harshness of the WL count doesn't allow for the intricacies and nuances that should be included in any assessment. That being said, Premierships are not given out for having the best vibe, or for coming close in a lot of games.
To be frank, I'm torn between both POVs, which I guess means I'm coming around slightly to the prospect of him staying on if we miss finals....
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| Agree that win/loss record isnt the only thing .... but 5 years with no improvement!?!? And now looking at six years .... think about how significant that would be. SIX YEARS with no improvement. |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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Same old excuses coming out:
he hasn't lost the players
injuries
just 1 more key forward
all those close losses
Poor Bucks
I appreciate and respect him for giving his all, but the change is too mild and too slow.
There is no evidence that all the players are playing for him all the time.
We have had some shocking quarters/games/individual performances.
We are way below par on injuries this year.
The draw has been very favourable and arguably we have played the harder teams at the right times.
Who's fault is it we are 1 key forward short?
Who's job is it too maximise our returns from close games?
The lack of accountability is shocking.
Bucks said himself it is pretty obvious he won't be around if we don't make finals.
Ed said he would walk away he wouldn't need to be sacked.
Time may prove that these leaders of the greatest sporting club in the universe are not simply spin merchants, maybe they are men of their word.
However it totally feels like everything is being contrived for them to back down from what we all took as commitments to the fans and future of the club.
It was wonderful to see the footy we played in the 2nd quarter last week. But that lead disappeared in 12 minutes of dominance from a couple of 19yolds in a side without their 2 most valuable players.
I liked what Bucks said on FC that we should have a buffer to overcome a poor quarter, an injury or 3, bad umpiring.
Buckley supporters have never been able to answer when is enough enough.
The club itself appears to be outsourcing the decision, so who can we believe anymore?
Im now even more in the camp of the whole club needs a cleanout, a circuit breaker, for the sake of the players.
If Bucks is extended for 1 or 2 years, what does this do to Pendles, Grundy, Jamie and Fas.
I want to see them with new hope, a fresh start.
We don't often see our players collectively enjoying themselves for long periods of time.
IMHO the club and Bucks should man up and declare they are men of their word and it's finals or new coach.
This war has gone on for long enough and there has been too many casualties.
All of us "perceptive fellow" accepted the 'Finals or Bust' deal and are behind the team to make it.
Shame the leaders of the club aren't as selfless. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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No point coming to any conclusion until the next 10 rounds play out.
Win 4 of 10 and he's gone or should be.
Win 7 and he's re-signed.
What happens if the bit in between plays out is anyone's guess.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| swoop42 wrote: | No point coming to any conclusion until the next 10 rounds play out.
Win 4 of 10 and he's gone or should be.
Win 7 and he's re-signed.
What happens if the bit in between plays out is anyone's guess. |
Win 6 and I'd expect him to be resigned. Win 8 and they'll erect a statue of him.  |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| I'm definitley in Bucks camp, but I would like us to let Robert Harvey go elsewhere. He's probably a decent bloke, but he's never struck me as being a particularly bright, insightful or inspiring person. I'd try to bring in someone like Hodge from the Hawks as an assistant, to help freshen up things and bring in some of Clarkson's methods. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm definitley in Bucks camp, but I would like us to let Robert Harvey go elsewhere. He's probably a decent bloke, but he's never struck me as being a particularly bright, insightful or inspiring person. I'd try to bring in someone like Hodge from the Hawks as an assistant, to help freshen up things and bring in some of Clarkson's methods. |
Sam Mitchell is already talking about whether he coaches or plays next year, I'd be all over him to replace harvey.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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bally12 
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm definitley in Bucks camp, but I would like us to let Robert Harvey go elsewhere. He's probably a decent bloke, but he's never struck me as being a particularly bright, insightful or inspiring person. I'd try to bring in someone like Hodge from the Hawks as an assistant, to help freshen up things and bring in some of Clarkson's methods. |
Sam Mitchell is already talking about whether he coaches or plays next year, I'd be all over him to replace harvey. |
Mitchell signed a 4-year playing/coaching contract with WCE. Most likely this will be his last playing year, and he'll be assistant coach for 3 years after that.
I agree that Hodge would make a good assistant coach. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | No point coming to any conclusion until the next 10 rounds play out.
Win 4 of 10 and he's gone or should be.
Win 7 and he's re-signed.
What happens if the bit in between plays out is anyone's guess. |
Win 6 and I'd expect him to be resigned. Win 8 and they'll erect a statue of him. |
Win 8 and this thread will need to be renamed the Buckley masturbate thread in your honour.  
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| bally12 wrote: | | I agree that Hodge would make a good assistant coach. |
Agrred that Harvey is vanilla.
What I would like to see with most assistant coaches is have a few years out of the AFL system. Coach a suburban or country club. Get to know a more about the sacrifices made by players. tradesmen giving up jobs to go to training. Volunteers making food. No allocated car parks. Players having to mind kids at same time as training and having other players wives step up to help. Having players late to training for work reasons, family problems like kid sick. Poor ground surfaces, wet and muddy conditions, beers with fans who are not star struck. Seewhat a wins means to the greengrocer who has followed for 50 years, his kids and grandkids played. The old committeman and women who held positions like presidents etc because it had to be done.Watching the under 18s work hard to get to play seniors aginst men, not protected by 4 umpires and MRP. Putting his hands in his own pocket to buy tickets in the meat tray raffle. The social functions that get all the wives snf girlfriends together. The cameraderie, the families. the off season weddings. Footy trips paid for by the players. The local press writing about FOOTBALL on the field only.
The build up and talk around the village, the butchers, the papershop, the supporter you run into at 7-11.
Then come back after you have proved you can handle a group of people, earn their respect and achieve success. Get out of the sausage machine.
Never understood why McGuane was never given a go but them Mick might not have wanted it.
Aplayer like Hodge who has always played at elite level may learn a heap about things if he say went and Captain Caoched or just coached say Somerville for 3 years.
_________________
Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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