The 2017 Nathan Buckley Debate thread (Part 2!)

[kymbo5@yahoo.com.au]

"You're so wrong here Bob.

We haven't lost a game by more than 23 points, we've lost a couple by a kick to sides sitting in the 8, we've played every side in the 8, bar the 2 Adelaide teams.

Our percentage is about 20% in front of where it was last year, only 3 sides have had more scoring shots than us and our Defence looks way better structured than it has for years.

If you don't think we look more dangerous this year then I don't know what to say."

Great post - love it

At this stage last year, we were 4-7 and been flogged in 6 of those games.

I think we'll continue to improve and make the bottom half of the 8.

Bucks stays [/quote]like **** he does.[/quote]

Listen sweetie - sorry Sugar boy.

You guys are floundering, in your anti Bucks agenda, you haven't been able to lay a punch for the last 5 weeks.
And it's only a matter time before you throw in the towel.

The team has improved this year WITHOUT question, as others have pointed out, and you guys lack the fortitude to accept this progress.

There is no guarantee that Bucks will keep his job, but he is a lot closer today than he was early in the season, which I know is disconcerting, and the cause of your insomnia.[/quote]

[RudeBoy]

Boom, tish.

[ThePieMind]

[Pies4shaw]

That would be "tack", not "tact".

[Johnno75]

Look Bucks has always spoken well in the media and even on footy classified you could see his knowledge of the game stand above the rest.

I have never said or thought that he has lost the players or they aren't invested.

But why I don't think Bucks will win us a flag in the next 5 years is that while it might not have been his decision alone but a decision nonetheless was made in 2013 to rejuvenate the list. Again I am not blaming Buckley completely but clearly he has a strong vision of how to play the game but I don't believe the list rollover has delivered the players with the skills to implement the plan on a consistent basis to get us into the top 4. Also the list rollover has left a few holes in a couple of key areas that need to be filled before we can genuinely challenge again.

My other issue is Bucks on game day when plan A doesn't work. Seen it time and time again. On Monday with Grundy dominating the ruck we were winning the clearance with ease. At half time Goodwin made moves to change the dynamic to at least try to stem our domination. Grundy still dominated the ruck but Melbourne got well on top in this area (they are not known to be a good clearance side) yet we let the game flow until next to no time they were in front and a 5 goal lead vanished. Why couldn't we throw an Aish or De Goey into 1 of the centre bounces or in the middle 5 or so minutes to change the dynamic and make Melbourne come up with a counter plan it was if it was like he was waiting for us to rest back control in general play but sometimes you need to throw in a different mix to stop momentum before it gets out of control.

My other concern is whether this type of game style will hold up in the heat of finals against the best. I have seen it fall away when teams put extreme pressure on us maybe not as much this year as the previous too but the Carlton game and when Melbourne pushed up the throttle on the pressure factor. Our good wins this year seem to be when teams haven't applied a heap of pressure on us even within games like Sydney and GWS teams have been able to force us into problems when applying pressure but we only seem to build leads when its off.

I will support the club no matter who the coach is next year but I have a feeling the real success is still 3 years away. We have a pretty good list that needs a bit of tinkering. I personally think it might be better for someone else to take it to the next level. Bucks might get us there eventually but someone else might get us there quicker.

[ThePieMind]

[Damien]

Watched the footy classified interview on the app today. The man is all class. He can coach. resign him whenever. He bleeds black n white.

[Krakouer Magic]

Skids

Duck!!! We,ve had three wins since you flew North for the summer.... where will you be after we ......The Pies!!!... are sitting in the top 8 tomorrow?!

Where's your Monkey and the grinder Krakouer?.... are they ok?
_________________

Good call mate. Top 8 my ass. And I chose not to post for 3 weeks cause I thought I'd let some of you Bucks lovers enjoy those unconvincing wins without me pointing how shit we played in those games. Also, I've kind of lost passion for the club. The flaws are obvious, systematic and continuous. The lack of attention to detail remains. Regardless of win or loss my opinion won't change. I think bringing in a new voice will take this talented group of young players into the 8.

[Bob Sugar]

[E]

i think two facts decide this debate.

1. His players are trying there arses off. A coach who has lost the playing group CANNOt get that level of commitment from his team.

2. Although the game plan we have isn't working 100% of the time, we are starting to see beautiful football in patches now and i believe that the way we are playing will only continue to be more and more dominant for longer stretches as the players continue to work it.

I would argue that we really are just one dominant forward away from being an extremely dangerous football team. What a shame Elliot went down when he did because the forward line had just about clicked when comprised of Moore, DeGoey, Elliot and Faz with cameos from others. Those 4 are deadly shots for goal (Faz seems to be recovering from his early season troubles which we never saw before this year and the other 3 are incredibly reliable).

All in all, with those two ingredients in place, a coach should be feeling the love from fans and the club.

I know it has taken a long time to get here, but there are valid reasons for that. For 2 years we had a post premiership list that was coming off the pinnacle (very few coaches have to live through that at the start of their career). i wouldnt count those years. Then there was a re-build that had to be done without draft picks meaning that we couldn't plug in a Franklin, a Kennedy or a Bontempelli to solve tonnes of problems. This meant it has taken 3-4 years to build out this list and as noted above, there is still a hole or two in the rebuilt team.

All in all, its been a tough grind, but i think Bucks deserves a chance to see what becomes of this list that he has just built. I'd give him 2 more years now and if in 2018, the team isn't playing for him or the game plan hasn't continued to evolve successfully, then i'd sack him a year early.

its common for an emerging group to have a year where the results dont meet the level of their playing ability (losing close ones and hurting yourself by not playing for 4 full quarters). History in the AFL (and in other sports incidentally) show that a team that suffers such heartbreak in a year follows it up with a breakout year.

PS: by way of example, in major league baseball, a stat is kept for teams that lose a massive amount of close games and this helps commentators to predict the team that will have a massive improvement ion the following year.

[BazBoy]

Watched his interveiw on Footy Classified and this is
not in any way about coaching--more to the point how he wont be manipulated to create a false story

When asked by Velvet if he thought players saw any vunerability in him he said you would have to ask the player

But then he shot back a reply to the ex Bomber
When you played under Sheedy did you see vunerability in him and Matthew was floored


Why these media try to prise out of good people something to feather their own nest astounds me

[3rd degree]

[3rd degree]

[RudeBoy]

I do note that over half of votes are for retaining Bucks as coach. Seems the tide is turning in his favour.

[AnthonyC]

Johnno75, melbourne are the sixth best team at clearances. They average 1 clearance less per game than the crows who are second, the giants are well in front of the comp.

"Not known for being a good clearance side" doesn't seem like a valid statement.

Not picking at you directly, but I read your comment and my gut feel was it was incorrect.