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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| David wrote: | | This is the dream of far-right groups: a return to ethnic-nationalism, where people only mingle with their own kind. |
No, this is where you're way off mate.
Australians will gladly accept anyone who is prepared to assimilate and be good, hard working citizens. Greeks, Italians, Slavs, Vietnamese etc, are perfect examples of this.
Muslims want; mosques, prayer rooms (there's one at Movie World now ffs!), even their own, segregated suburbs! Not to mention have multiple wives, female GM, Sharia law, wear burkas and plot terror attacks.
They do not want to assimilate, or work, or abide by our laws.
That's the deal.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then
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The big worry is Iran. What if they come to Qatar's aid with food or medical supplies and something 'happens'?
Or worse, Qatar is attacked and Iran comes to her aid?
There's a lot of heat in the M.E. and I'm not talking about the weather....
MM
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Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Skids wrote: | | David wrote: | | This is the dream of far-right groups: a return to ethnic-nationalism, where people only mingle with their own kind. |
No, this is where you're way off mate.
Australians will gladly accept anyone who is prepared to assimilate and be good, hard working citizens. Greeks, Italians, Slavs, Vietnamese etc, are perfect examples of this.
Muslims want; mosques, prayer rooms (there's one at Movie World now ffs!), even their own, segregated suburbs! Not to mention have multiple wives, female GM, Sharia law, wear burkas and plot terror attacks.
They do not want to assimilate, or work, or abide by our laws.
That's the deal. |
Mosques and prayer rooms are reasonable things to want and cost us nothing. Whatever their desire for Sharia Law might be, most accept that coming here means they live under a secular legal system and are perfectly happy with that.
Otherwise, the vast majority of Muslims do not want multiple wives, female genital mutilation or terror attacks ( ), and to say that they don't want to work or abide by our laws is just bigoted rubbish.
The stuff you're saying here is exactly what people were saying about Vietnamese etc. a generation ago. There's nothing new about it. You can say you're not a supporter of the White Australia Policy, but that's ultimately all this admiration of closed societies like Poland and Japan amounts to. You can blame the end of the WAP for the fact we have Muslims here today, along with quaint ideas about religious freedom and non-discrimination.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| "Greasy smoke fills the skies". |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | David wrote: | | This is the dream of far-right groups: a return to ethnic-nationalism, where people only mingle with their own kind. |
No, this is where you're way off mate.
Australians will gladly accept anyone who is prepared to assimilate and be good, hard working citizens. Greeks, Italians, Slavs, Vietnamese etc, are perfect examples of this.
Muslims want; mosques, prayer rooms (there's one at Movie World now ffs!), even their own, segregated suburbs! Not to mention have multiple wives, female GM, Sharia law, wear burkas and plot terror attacks.
They do not want to assimilate, or work, or abide by our laws.
That's the deal. |
Mosques and prayer rooms are reasonable things to want and cost us nothing. Whatever their desire for Sharia Law might be, most accept that coming here means they live under a secular legal system and are perfectly happy with that.
Otherwise, the vast majority of Muslims do not want multiple wives, female genital mutilation or terror attacks (), and to say that they don't want to work or abide by our laws is just bigoted rubbish.
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You seem fairly sure about what Muslims do and do not want. Did you read the links in my post here? http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=76944&start=1200
2nd last on the page
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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According to the first link in that post, 23% – less than one in four – want Sharia Law, and surely we all understand that you can want something and rationally accept it's never going to be the case. Why are you defending Skids' outrageous generalisations?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | According to the first link in that post, 23% – less than one in four – want Sharia Law, and surely we all understand that you can want something and rationally accept it's never going to be the case. Why are you defending Skids' outrageous generalisations? |
I'm not defending it but as a generalisation it's not that inaccurate (as generalisations go)
Read all of both articles and get back to me. You're instantly applying your own filter to the data by saying people want something but rationally accept they can't have it. I'd suggest the 23% who say they want it haven't rationalised anything, and that a chunk of the rest are the ones you refer to.
I don't like the Catholic Church. That doesn't mean I dislike all Catholics. Same applies with Islam.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | David wrote: | | This is the dream of far-right groups: a return to ethnic-nationalism, where people only mingle with their own kind. |
No, this is where you're way off mate.
Australians will gladly accept anyone who is prepared to assimilate and be good, hard working citizens. Greeks, Italians, Slavs, Vietnamese etc, are perfect examples of this.
Muslims want; mosques, prayer rooms (there's one at Movie World now ffs!), even their own, segregated suburbs! Not to mention have multiple wives, female GM, Sharia law, wear burkas and plot terror attacks.
They do not want to assimilate, or work, or abide by our laws.
That's the deal. |
Mosques and prayer rooms are reasonable things to want and cost us nothing. Whatever their desire for Sharia Law might be, most accept that coming here means they live under a secular legal system and are perfectly happy with that.
Otherwise, the vast majority of Muslims do not want multiple wives, female genital mutilation or terror attacks (), and to say that they don't want to work or abide by our laws is just bigoted rubbish.
The stuff you're saying here is exactly what people were saying about Vietnamese etc. a generation ago. There's nothing new about it. You can say you're not a supporter of the White Australia Policy, but that's ultimately all this admiration of closed societies like Poland and Japan amounts to. You can blame the end of the WAP for the fact we have Muslims here today, along with quaint ideas about religious freedom and non-discrimination. |
There's a whole bunch of stuff in here. Of course most Muslims want to work. Many of them do very menial and unpleasant, low-paid and insecure jobs and they struggle terribly because they have children and their wives do not do paid work. I dislike Islam intensely, but many Muslims are generous, hard working and serious individuals. I have more in common with them than I do with half of the welfare-state layabouts and no-hopers who get pissed weekly, beat up their children, and get by on petty theft and cannabis. In public policy terms, however, Islam is an ideology of a particularly passionate and identity-shaping kind, and even those who are reticent about its influence today will surely intensify their aspirations for a more Islam-inspired society as critical mass makes it possible. That is human nature. I think Islam is a lousy religion, but I have no interest in demonising Muslims. I simply know that humans are what they are, and if you import a large number of people whose identity is shaped by such a passion-inspiring force, you must expect them to try to reshape you, because humans are political animals. And, of course, 1 in about a thousand is interested in blowing your children to pieces. En masse,t hat turns into a large and clearly unmanageable number.
As to David's comment about "far right dreams where people only mingle with their own kind", well, If Japan is far right, it might be the only time I have felt attracted to that point of the political compass. A society with dignity, deeply felt traditions, strong family bonds, low crime, few drug problems, and a very high standard of living is not the kind of thing I associate with the far-right. Some immigration is fine by me. What is not fine is the reckless and uncertain transformation of society by the completely unnecessary infusion of large numbers of people who understand little of each other.
When our societies had little immigration, and the immigration was from culturally similar peoples, we were a kinder, more tolerant and more harmonious place, capable of making connections with each other through shared codes of language and meaning. Today, increasingly, we have communities of mutually uncomprehending solitudes held together by a tin circle of hapless government. This rather pleases the Left, I suspect, because a disunited people who cannot understand each other is far easier to control and the inevitable disorder justifies the endless expansion of government, which can always be relied upon to bodge fix the problems it has caused.
Clearly some immigration, carefully managed, can have benefits. However societies like Japan and China seem to be progressing rather better than those which have lost control of their borders.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:32 am; edited 3 times in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | According to the first link in that post, 23% – less than one in four – want Sharia Law, and surely we all understand that you can want something and rationally accept it's never going to be the case. Why are you defending Skids' outrageous generalisations? |
I'm not defending it but as a generalisation it's not that inaccurate (as generalisations go)
Read all of both articles and get back to me. You're instantly applying your own filter to the data by saying people want something but rationally accept they can't have it. I'd suggest the 23% who say they want it haven't rationalised anything, and that a chunk of the rest are the ones you refer to.
I don't like the Catholic Church. That doesn't mean I dislike all Catholics. Same applies with Islam. |
Given it's far less than 50%, it's a less accurate generalisation than "Muslims don't want Sharia Law". But of course it would be even better to not generalise at all and say that "some Muslims want Sharia Law", just as some want to wear burqas and some want their daughters circumcised, but the vast majority don't.
I don't particularly like Islam either, but that doesn't mean I'm not disgusted by baseless slurs against that religion's practitioners.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | As to David's comment about "far right dreams where people only mingle with their own kind", well, If Japan is far right, it might be the only time I have felt attracted to that point of the political compass. A society with dignity, deeply felt traditions, strong family bonds, low crime, few drug problems, and a very high standard of living is not the kind of thing I associate with the far-right. |
While Japan's culture leans conservative, I never said it was a far-right country. All I'm saying is that their ethno-nationalist immigration policy would, in our cultural context today, be considered by nearly everyone to be of the far-right – as would anyone proposing a return to our fairly analogous White Australia Policy. Even One Nation don't call for such things; not directly, at least. The admiration such types express for Japanese monoculture, however, is a throwback not just to pre-Whitlam Australia but the sentiments that existed here at federation: that those of other races and cultures would destroy and overrun our society if we let them in. Somehow, such discourse has become normal again.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Mountains Magpie wrote: | As Qatar is probably going to be central to what happens next in the middle east and central Asia in the short to medium term I thought this thread was best for news of developments.
Iran has blamed Saudi Arabia for the terrorist attack in Tehran. ISIS has claimed responsibility. I'd like to thank Culprit for the tissue warning - you've saved me a lot of laundry work this morning 
Germany is pulling out it's troops from the Incirlik airbase in Turkey. This has NATO implications. Montenegro joined NATO 3 days ago which I personally find rather amusing. They are as North Atlantic as Fiji. 
Turkey's parliament has approved a bill allowing troop deployment to Qatar. Will the Americans let them or welcome them?
Saudi Arabia gave Qatar 24 hours to comply with 10 demands that have not been made public. There are muffled threats of military action. I think the deadline expires tonight our time.
Iraqi Kurds are having an independence referendum on 25 September apparently. This has potentially massive implications for Turkey and Syria.
MM
PS: Two docos which will help explain the hypercluster*&%^ that is the middle east:
Sykes Picot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu-s3xP32b0
Mid East since WW2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdsmZo_1-gw |
Both excellent links, MM. the one on Sykes Picot, in particular, should be mandatory watching for all politicans. It is balanced, honest and relatively unideological. In general, our politicians know far too little history. I am not an admirer of Arab culture, but the maltreatment of these proud people over centuries, and especially by Western powers since 1914, is something we should all understand far better.
I also have little time for the goodies and baddies school of history. History is a struggle for power and, when the power struggle is over for a time, for progress, which can usually happen only within settled power structures. The point of understanding history is not to assign blame, but to learn how the future might take shape from where we are now.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | As to David's comment about "far right dreams where people only mingle with their own kind", well, If Japan is far right, it might be the only time I have felt attracted to that point of the political compass. A society with dignity, deeply felt traditions, strong family bonds, low crime, few drug problems, and a very high standard of living is not the kind of thing I associate with the far-right. |
While Japan's culture leans conservative, I never said it was a far-right country. All I'm saying is that their ethno-nationalist immigration policy would, in our cultural context today, be considered by nearly everyone to be of the far-right – as would anyone proposing a return to our fairly analogous White Australia Policy. Even One Nation don't call for such things; not directly, at least. The admiration such types express for Japanese monoculture, however, is a throwback not just to pre-Whitlam Australia but the sentiments that existed here at federation: that those of other races and cultures would destroy and overrun our society if we let them in. Somehow, such discourse has become normal again. |
That we regard the quite ordinary, sane and exemplary policy of Japan as "far-right" tells you just how debased our political culture has become.
The key point is that restricting immigration closely appears to be conducive to a happier society than our fractious and unhappy society of mass migration. This is not surprising. The WaP thing is a red herring. It is not a matter of skin colour, but a matter of cultural cohesion and the maintenance of shared values and meanings, and the enrichment and progress made possible by these.
What is truly bizarre is the quasi-religious view that large scale migration is just unarguably a good thing, a priori. Even people who oppose migration form some groups are quick to assure you that they support migration from elsewhere. It is a shibboleth of modern Western culture that the nation is just a circus ring in which every conceivable act has its place, and that a connected society based on genuine affinity is a bad thing, despite the massive evidence to the contrary.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:04 am; edited 3 times in total |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Thanks for the video link - great goal by Rogic to win it.
The biggest question for me is why, when I click the link from that article to the News.com.au story about the game, is a video of Luke Beveridge's post-game press-conference embedded in the middle of it? Talk about not respecting others' culture.... |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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They knew damn well what they were doing and what it signified. We should boycott future games with them.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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