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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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The problem with analysing recruiting decisions / outcomes is that it never has and never will be an exact science. That's the game when you decide to dabble in it. Every club has enjoyed its share of hits and misses and we are no different. At a guess, I would say we still slightly ahead of the '' middle of the road '' ledger when compared to all other clubs ( and depending on the window )
To many people are quick to judge the player on the number he was taken in the draft and call the club out if that player doesn't perform according to the position he was selected. No club will ever get it 100 % right.
Jono O'Rourke was taken pick 2 in a national draft by GWS and then traded to Hawks for a late first round pick. He is 5 years in the system as an outside mid ( the easiest one to get right ) and he has hardly played any senior footy. Is that the Giants and Hawks fault for misjudging his ability or O' Rourkes fault for whatever reason ?
Nick Maxwell was a premiership captain as a rookie pick. That's fairy tale stuff. Is that Collingwoods brilliant eye for talent identification or Maxwells desire to squeeze every last bit out of himself in order to achieve success ?
Everyone is right with the benefit of hindsight. I think when we gauge our clubs recruiting performances, we should best gauge against all other clubs, not just around our own insular perceptions of a Collingwood players ability based on their draft spot.
As I said earlier, by comparison against other clubs, I think we are going ok but that also depends on the window you choose to pick. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a monumental mistake, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hines choice looks an inspired one.
We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him, Hine told Fox Sports News.
It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5.
I almost drove into a tree.
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldnt touch him in a phone box, he said.
Its just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time hes got the ball the game just stops around him.
Hine said Pendleburys on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players hes seen in black and white.
Hes certainly right up there ... Hes just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances, he said.
Hes proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is. |
That was interesting.
It also reinforced my opinion of Caroline Wilson.
........ |
She was reporting what "industry sources" were saying. It's great that Hine was ahead of the AFL recruiting industry. While she was not only a passive player in this she largely was. Her stand on Essendon and women in sport is / was merit worthy.
But we all have different opinions: mine & wrong ones  
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| sixpoints wrote: | You must turn the list over, so what have we missed from our notable outs traded to other clubs;
Dale Thomas - washed up. For the money, he has been a poor return.
Heretier Lumumba - washed up
Chris Dawes - washed up
Dayne Beames - still has massive up side, but on the whole chronically injured. Only played 25 times out of 53 games since he left.
Sharrrod Wellingham - been serviceable but easily replaceable
Ben Kennedy - washed up
Jackson Paine - washed up
Paul Seedsman - easily replaceable
Jon Ceglar - may have missed one here. Injured a lot, but has been good
Nathan Freeman - yet to play a senior game
Marley Williams - easily replaceable
Jarrod Witts - has upside, but would never play over Grundy
Jack Frost - limited player, back up defender at best
Nathan Brown - capable, but would have one year in him at best
Travis Cloke - he offers very little now. One more year in him at best
Heath Shaw - has been missed and has played excellently. He's over his peak, but still good.
All in all our outs besides Shaw and perhaps Ceglar, all the rest have been serviceable at best, or flops. Very little missed. |
Peter Moore - won a Brownlow at Melbourne
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Robert Dean and Ernie Hug to the Swans? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a monumental mistake, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hines choice looks an inspired one.
We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him, Hine told Fox Sports News.
It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5.
I almost drove into a tree.
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldnt touch him in a phone box, he said.
Its just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time hes got the ball the game just stops around him.
Hine said Pendleburys on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players hes seen in black and white.
Hes certainly right up there ... Hes just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances, he said.
Hes proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is. |
That was interesting.
It also reinforced my opinion of Caroline Wilson.
........ |
She was reporting what "industry sources" were saying. It's great that Hine was ahead of the AFL recruiting industry. While she was not only a passive player in this she largely was. Her stand on Essendon and women in sport is / was merit worthy.
But we all have different opinions: mine & wrong ones |
We did make a monumental mistake with Pendlebury - we should have selected him before Thomas. Imagine the horror if Hawthorn had taken Pendlebury at 3 and we'd had to settle for Ellis. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| RudeBoy wrote: | We were also smart off loading Travis Cloke when we did.
For all those who suggested he would thrive under a 'supportive coach', I read today that he is likely to be dropped after kicking only 5 goals and taking 6 contested marks in 6 games (something like that anyway). Seems the club knew he was cooked. Good call by our club. |
I was really hoping he would do well at the Western Bulldogs so it's a little sad to him in decline at another club. Hope he gets back to some form and retains his place in the side. In any case it was the correct call to clear him to the WB. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| watt price tully wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a monumental mistake, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hines choice looks an inspired one.
We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him, Hine told Fox Sports News.
It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5.
I almost drove into a tree.
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldnt touch him in a phone box, he said.
Its just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time hes got the ball the game just stops around him.
Hine said Pendleburys on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players hes seen in black and white.
Hes certainly right up there ... Hes just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances, he said.
Hes proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is. |
That was interesting.
It also reinforced my opinion of Caroline Wilson.
........ |
She was reporting what "industry sources" were saying. It's great that Hine was ahead of the AFL recruiting industry. While she was not only a passive player in this she largely was. Her stand on Essendon and women in sport is / was merit worthy.
But we all have different opinions: mine & wrong ones |
That is my point about Wilson. There is no value in the media to talk about "industry sources". Who are they? When? Where?
Wilson cannot give her own opinions about the actual game of football because she has little knowledge of it.
She rarely goes to games.
She rarely talks about tactical or strategic parts of the actual game.
She is concerned with the big picture and negative events around the game, not the game itself.
My most memorable Wilson moment was on Footy Classified.She was critical of a club over the appointment of a captain, saying it was a mistake (unfortunately I cannot recall which club or player it was). Grant Thomas asked her for her opinion on which player should have been named captain. She did not want to answer, but when pushed further, named a player that had retired at the end of the last season. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a monumental mistake, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hines choice looks an inspired one.
We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him, Hine told Fox Sports News.
It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5.
I almost drove into a tree.
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldnt touch him in a phone box, he said.
Its just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time hes got the ball the game just stops around him.
Hine said Pendleburys on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players hes seen in black and white.
Hes certainly right up there ... Hes just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances, he said.
Hes proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is. |
That was interesting.
It also reinforced my opinion of Caroline Wilson.
........ |
She was reporting what "industry sources" were saying. It's great that Hine was ahead of the AFL recruiting industry. While she was not only a passive player in this she largely was. Her stand on Essendon and women in sport is / was merit worthy.
But we all have different opinions: mine & wrong ones |
We did make a monumental mistake with Pendlebury - we should have selected him before Thomas. Imagine the horror if Hawthorn had taken Pendlebury at 3 and we'd had to settle for Ellis. |
Hawthorn always wanted Thomas. That's why we selected him at pick 2. Although Ellis didn't have a great career I think he played well in one of the Hawthorn GF's so that justified his selection after we chose Thomas. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Oops. Too much data. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | We were also smart off loading Travis Cloke when we did.
For all those who suggested he would thrive under a 'supportive coach', I read today that he is likely to be dropped after kicking only 5 goals and taking 6 contested marks in 6 games (something like that anyway). Seems the club knew he was cooked. Good call by our club. |
I was really hoping he would do well at the Western Bulldogs so it's a little sad to him in decline at another club. Hope he gets back to some form and retains his place in the side. In any case it was the correct call to clear him to the WB. |
Graph the performance of any physically large player in the AFL over the last 15 years or so. If the line has been going steadily down for the last couple of years, has it ever turned back up on a consistent basis for any player? I doubt it.
Take away Cloke's sticky glove last year and his graph would look far worse. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Robert Dean and Ernie Hug to the Swans? |
Hug would fit in right now. Great mark but couldn't kick straight for quids.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| melliot wrote: | | This list was 2nd bottom on the ladder only the round before last. Hardly a ringing endorsment. |
Absurd to infer we are a second bottom due to list quality.
When GWS were struggling at the bottom of the ladder, was it a list quality issue?
Did they , sack the recruiters and start again? |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| mooretreloar wrote: | ^^
Spot on.
The call on Nathan Brown was absolutely spot on.
Jack Frost cannot get a game at Brisbane, so another correct call.
Marley has been playing OK for North, but is still butchering the ball chronically, so another correct call.
Witts has been doing well for Gold Coast, but it is understandable that he wanted to leave, as he would not been playing in front of Grundy, so he would be languishing in the 2's. A win for him and for the club, as we used the picks we received for Witts to help get Daicos and Brown. |
good calls all round
_________________
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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| ThePieMind wrote: | | melliot wrote: | | This list was 2nd bottom on the ladder only the round before last. Hardly a ringing endorsment. |
Absurd to infer we are a second bottom due to list quality.
When GWS were struggling at the bottom of the ladder, was it a list quality issue?
Did they , sack the recruiters and start again? |
Nothing should be viewed in isolation. It needs to be viewed in context.
We have recruited a fair amount mature aged and limited drafting of kids. That means you should be gaining more positive results, otherwise why not go to the draft for kids?
To be truthful, I think the list is OK with the exception of quality young Key forwards, key defenders, and crumbing forwards. But under current performance, I can't see how you could say it is anything better than OK or par. It certainly is not great and it isn't poor. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Robert Dean and Ernie Hug to the Swans? |
Yeah but we got Johnny Hummel!
_________________
I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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