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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| E wrote: | | Coaches create a culture of discipline, or not. It is partly their fault if a player is so undisciplined as to do such a stupid thing...... |
E, did you see Carman play?
He was an absolute freakish superstar in terms of ability. He was on the Daicos & Greening level. But, you can't blame Hafey for not controlling Carman. Hafey had as much chance of controlling the weather or herding cats as he did of controlling Carman.
When Carman was being coached by Sheedy, Carman decided to whack Sidebottom and did so. When the field umpire ran in to report him he accepted that, but when the boundary umpire ran in and reported him as well, he lost it and headbutted, then backhanded, the boundary umpire. Why? Because he said the boundary umpire had his back to the incident and didn't see it.
Carman did what he wanted to do & couldn't be told otherwise. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Best footballer I ever saw. Pity he gets blamed for the abject failure of the 1977 team to hold on for 25 minutes to a lead of almost 5 goals against a team that had kicked 4 in 3 quarters (and none for about an hour). |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | sixpoints wrote: | Neil Mann.
As a coach I think he is greatly under valued. He inherited the team from Bob Rose in 1972 and immediately lost Des Tuddenham to Essendon. He got the very best out of Len Thompson who was floundering in his career by 1971. Under Mann he wins a Brownlow.
Mann was also desperately unlucky to lose John Greening mid 1972. Peter McKenna kicks 120 goals in 1972, but is injured in the last game and doesn't play finals. We do go out in straight sets without McKenna & Greening, but show great fight in both games. He also plays unheralded youngsters Dunstan & Cooper in the finals.
In 1973 we finish top. We are not the best side, but play very attacking attractive football. Youngsters are played and come finals after a loss in the 2nd Semi, Price and McKenna are dropped, 16 year old Kink & 17 year old Manassa are brought in. Thompson is moved out of the ruck to CHF and Hafey's Richmond are bamboozled but regroup to beat us narrowly.
The next year 1974, we play well, but realistically the side cannot win it. Mann plays the youngsters again and we enter the finals with Manassa & Picken both 18 and incredibly Moore & Clifford who are both only 17 in the side. We win our first final but are put out the next week.
He was a good motivator of players and was never afraid to make bold selection decisions. Given a better run with injuries - especially Greening and well.......we'll never know. |
I remember Neil Mann coming to my footy club when I was a kid, and demonstrating how many eggs he could hold in one of his enormous hands. Those sorts of things stick in a youngster's mind. |
that is very funny.
The one thing that stuck in my mind was Graham Arthur the ex hawthorn captain who was playing captain coach for my home team Echuca, well he had a broken nose and when he went into the rooms at half time he stood there and grabbed his nose and straightened it up!
Man, my mouth just dropped in amazement.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | E wrote: | | Coaches create a culture of discipline, or not. It is partly their fault if a player is so undisciplined as to do such a stupid thing...... |
E, did you see Carman play?
He was an absolute freakish superstar in terms of ability. He was on the Daicos & Greening level. But, you can't blame Hafey for not controlling Carman. Hafey had as much chance of controlling the weather or herding cats as he did of controlling Carman.
When Carman was being coached by Sheedy, Carman decided to whack Sidebottom and did so. When the field umpire ran in to report him he accepted that, but when the boundary umpire ran in and reported him as well, he lost it and headbutted, then backhanded, the boundary umpire. Why? Because he said the boundary umpire had his back to the incident and didn't see it.
Carman did what he wanted to do & couldn't be told otherwise. |
Years after the 1977 gf a norf player player told me that if Carmen had been playing Barrassi would have had to allocate 2 players to tag Carmen because he was that good and even if carmen didn't get a kick taking out 2 opposition players should have enabled us to win.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Did you believe him? |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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Notice something about all those home grown Collingwood coaches...
Shaw nearly made the finals in 1997. weidemann nearly beat richmond in 1975, also put peter moore at centre half back so hats off to him for that. Rose nearly won a premiership until Des Tuddenham got injured, he was unstoppable. Mann nearly made a grand final in 1973, but lost Greening and McKenna along the way. Buckley nearly won a premiership as a player - BOG. And then has a disturbing habit of nearly beating the big boys as a coach...
But Barassi and Phonse Kyne won premierships when they shouldn't have - they had all the luck in the world.
Our mate Shakespeare said it best:
| Quote: | | Even the very dice obey him. |
Mark Anthony is a better general than Octavian, but the luck is always with the man of destiny. You'll never find him in a Magpie jumper. |
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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne
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Pies4shaw makes a good point. Collingwood 27 points up at three quarter time in 1977; should've held on and won. But wait, North was a pretty good side then. They'd played in the last 3 grand finals and were battle-hardened. Our boys were coming off a wooden spoon the year before. Barassi moved Dench to the forward line and we couldn't stop Phil Baker.
But, with Carmen in the side the game would've been over by three quarter time.
You can't blame someone for getting injured, but getting suspended? Carmen cost us the 1977 premiership! |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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Cant believe no love for Bob Rush with a 100% win ratio and a Premiership.
Best Coach Ever.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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| Presti35 wrote: | Cant believe no love for Bob Rush with a 100% win ratio and a Premiership.
Best Coach Ever. |
I guess that was over 65 years ago so....
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Presti35 wrote: | Cant believe no love for Bob Rush with a 100% win ratio and a Premiership.
Best Coach Ever. |
Not that it had anything to do Jock McHale lying in bed at home with the flu. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Hiss
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: Hafey | |
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I rate Tom Hafey as our number one! 1976 to 1977 was an unbelievable time to be a social club member. We chose the best 22 at the Bar every Thursday night.
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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So Bucks is the 7th most experienced coach the club has ever had. (And only 14 games behind Hafey).
It's weird to think that Bucks has almost been here for half the amount of time that MM was in charge. (Well 20 games from half anyway).
All of the 6 coaches in front of Bucks made it to a GF.
Geez, its depressing when looking at all those GFs and "all those" premierships.
MM should have won more than 1. Bob Rose should have at least 1, as too with Hafey.
Anyway, Bucks really needs to get us into the finals and win them too.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Presti35 wrote: | So Bucks is the 7th most experienced coach the club has ever had. (And only 14 games behind Hafey).
It's weird to think that Bucks has almost been here for half the amount of time that MM was in charge. (Well 20 games from half anyway).
All of the 6 coaches in front of Bucks made it to a GF.
Geez, its depressing when looking at all those GFs and "all those" premierships.
MM should have won more than 1. Bob Rose should have at least 1, as too with Hafey.
Anyway, Bucks really needs to get us into the finals and win them too. |
He will. Now that the decline and the reabuild are in the rear view mirror, i think we are into the glory period. the Window is opening and will be open through 2020 one would think. 1990, 2010, 2020 would put us 10 years ahead of the last assault. MM didn't win a glag until his 11th year at Collingwood (mainly because his rebuild began in 2004). An extraordinary talent in Nathan Buckley got him a couple of Grand Final trips early in his career but he didn't really have the cattle until 2008 (and they weren't ready to win even then).
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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We're all in agreement that Buckley would sit at about #7 in that list, right?
| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: |
When Carman was being coached by Sheedy, Carman decided to whack Sidebottom and did so. When the field umpire ran in to report him he accepted that, but when the boundary umpire ran in and reported him as well, he lost it and headbutted, then backhanded, the boundary umpire. Why? Because he said the boundary umpire had his back to the incident and didn't see it.
Carman did what he wanted to do & couldn't be told otherwise. |
I think Barry Davis was actually the Essendon coach when the boundary umpire incident happened. Carman did play under Sheedy the year after, though.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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