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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Bloody US under Trump can't keep a secret:
1. First Trump reveals Israeli classified intelligence to Russia
2. Now the US reveals the name of the bomber without consulting the UK as to timing of such information: Amateur hour (again) with the US
"...Britain's Home Secretary Amber Rudd has complained to her US counterpart over the leak of the identity of the Manchester suicide bomber to the American media.
Mrs Rudd took the extraordinary step of making the UK government's frustration with the Americans public on Wednesday as counter-terror investigators worked to identify possible accomplices of 22-year old Salman Abedi..."
http://www.theage.com.au/world/britain-slams-the-united-states-for-leaking-identity-of-manchester-suicide-bomber-20170524-gwcg3u.html[/b]
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| watt price tully wrote: |
What a stupid table to show that Muslims are more likely to kill / murder people through acts of terror:
Just one example:
Misogyny an ideology?
Developed by yet another inadequate maladjusted male was it ? 
Wiki definition:
"Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.[1][2] Misogyny can occasionally be found within sacred texts of religions and mythologies, and various influential Western philosophers and thinkers have been described as misogynistic" |
You take that from the table? Here's the unfiltered data, you can make your own table.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Took me about 10 seconds in google to find the likely attack attributed to misogyny. Personally I'd list it as "Anti Feminist" terrorism for clarity but it's a bit of a quibble. I don't think anti feminists are in any danger of matching Islam in the terrorism stakes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cole_Polytechnique_massacre |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Radical Islamists, of course, are well known for their feminist sympathies. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
What a stupid table to show that Muslims are more likely to kill / murder people through acts of terror:
Just one example:
Misogyny an ideology?
Developed by yet another inadequate maladjusted male was it ?
Wiki definition:
"Misogyny (/mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including social exclusion, sex discrimination, hostility, androcentrism, patriarchy, male privilege, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification.[1][2] Misogyny can occasionally be found within sacred texts of religions and mythologies, and various influential Western philosophers and thinkers have been described as misogynistic" |
You take that from the table? Here's the unfiltered data, you can make your own table.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks |
I saw a bar chart not a table. On the horizontal axis of the bar chart was a list of so called ideologies. Amongst that list of purported ideologies was Misogyny. As noted Misogyny is not an ideology.
If that sort of sloppiness is allowed to be noted then how reliable is the data?
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| David wrote: | | Radical Islamists, of course, are well known for their feminist sympathies. |
I'm glad you got a laugh out of it. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | Took me about 10 seconds in google to find the likely attack attributed to misogyny. Personally I'd list it as "Anti Feminist" terrorism for clarity but it's a bit of a quibble. I don't think anti feminists are in any danger of matching Islam in the terrorism stakes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cole_Polytechnique_massacre |
It's not a quibble: it goes to credibility of the said bar chart.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Pi wrote: | If Muslims want to reform I_Slam good luck to them thats their business; but history and reality are clearly against them.
The only concern I have is for ex Muslims who have clearly been thrown under the bus by progressives who label them conservative shills and then have to live in fear of death threats by their own family and community.
The federal government doesnt even ban groups like this and the wider community is too scared to drive them out.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/34811965/hizb-ut-tahrir-islamic-group-in-australia-calls-for-ex-muslims-to-be-executed/#page1
Leaving a religion is a human reality thats been going on for thousands of years, anyone ever wondered how many people wear the costume and chant the platitudes but cant leave due to threats, no alternatives and virtually no support?
The attitude to ex-Muslims in general defies logic and reason. |
We just had a young Iranian-Dutch woman stay with us for a couple of days. She was telling me about how her atheist father had been imprisoned in the aftermath of the 1979 revolution and how her parents had had to seek asylum in the Netherlands as refugees (of course if they'd taken a boat to Australia at a different point in history, they'd be going slowly insane in a concentration camp on Manus, but that's another story...).
There are few issues in Arabic and Middle-Eastern politics that I feel as strongly about as the plight of ex-Muslims, atheists and members of religious minorities in those countries. The knowledge that I would be in their shoes if I were over there is a pretty strong point of empathic recognition on its own, so the people who manage to overcome this oppression and speak freely inspire me greatly. These are the same people that many of us on the left in the West were inspired by in their fight for liberal democracy in Tunisia, Egypt and (most tragically) Syria.
The calls from organisations like HuT are a disgrace and any such threats should result in prosecution (while as with that Christian pro-lifer from the US who was banned from visiting here, I do see a difference between enunciating a fundamentalist religious position on criminal justice and actually calling for vigilante killings, it's just weasel words from this speaker and his apparent unwillingness to make that distinction clear is as bad as endorsing such violence).
The problem with someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, on the other hand, is that, with absolute respect for what she's been through the perspective it gives her, much of what she says about Muslims is as extreme and belligerent if not more so as anything Geert Wilders or Pauline Hanson comes out with, and that hate speech can't just be waved away because she's a woman who grew up under Islamic oppression. And of course the death threats she receives are even more cowardly and unacceptable. As always, the extremists get the platform, and all the moderate people in-between get ignored. Which is why Mugwump and others can still peddle falsehoods about Muslims not speaking out against terrorism despite them doing so over and over and over again.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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loki04 
Tiger Treloar lmfao NOPE.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Broken Hill
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Islam follower Terrorist. Again. |
But Skids is assured at the at the time of his posting the perpetrators were not home grown because he posts "we keep letting them in"....
I prefer to wait to learn what an assessment of the situation tells us than speculate & finger point at this early point in time. |
UK let his parents in and had family contact and trips back to Syria where he trained for the shit.
Indoctrination starts as a child.
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Up the Mighty Mags 2016. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| loki04 wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Islam follower Terrorist. Again. |
But Skids is assured at the at the time of his posting the perpetrators were not home grown because he posts "we keep letting them in"....
I prefer to wait to learn what an assessment of the situation tells us than speculate & finger point at this early point in time. |
UK let his parents in and had family contact and trips back to Syria where he trained for the shit.
Indoctrination starts as a child. |
Of course it does, and truth never lies however: What is your point?
As you quoted: I prefer to wait to learn what an assessment of the situation tells us.. . Now the facts are starting to come in (despite the best efforts of the current incompetent US regime).
However, the main point of my posting was that it was opportunistic & indecent by the haste in which Skids posted in the immediate aftermath of the murder in Manchester to make the comment "we keep letting them in" (in case you missed it )
Not all the facts are in yet so it's always a good idea to wait till they are to make informed comment.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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After each attack these denunciations are made, and I do not doubt that they are felt by the many good Muslims. That is not my point. The point is that there is no mass movement of Muslims acknowledging the problem, demanding change, committing to anti-terrorism, and accepting that the problem is Islam. I suspect that part of the reason for this is that Islam itself is very fractured and particulate, with little tradition of church authority. This is one of the facets which makes the religion itself so liable to perversion.
Your pictures of a few people demonstrating against ISIS (not the only source of Islamic terrorism) do not mean much, as they are just as likely to be sectarian preference as an acknowledgement that Islam itself, wherever it is found, needs reform.
It's not the key issue, however. They key issue is what we, in the West, do to manage the Muslim communities we have with fairness and justice, while insulating and defending ourselves against further incursions and perversions of this ancient Arab ideology. At the moment, all I sense from the Left, who have vitiated all of their traditions by siding with this most reactionary faith, is that we must learn to live with the massacre of our children on our streets, rather than take any practical action which would offend their greater religion of diversity and cultural relativism.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I've often wondered of those who identify as Muslim what percentage are actively involved in trying to live within the requirements of it?
While I have no idea I suspect it might be far higher than those who identify as Christian but don't go church, adhere to special diet requirements or say grace before a meal etc.
My point is that while Christianity has had it's well documented problems over the centuries the fact less and less people actually now participate within it to the point of being labelled a devout Christian has been beneficial (the Pope probably doesn't agree) and lead to more open minded opinion and individuals whilst still embracing some of the good ideals within it.
My fear is that with many Islamic countries they're still a century or three away from that kind of casual adherence for a majority of followers and with a greater percentage being so devout (brainwashed) it's an easier task to turn them to radical Islam.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
i worked with a bloke back in the 80's who drank like a fish whenever the opportunity to go to the pub presented and ate anything he could shovel in his mouth. I was gobsmacked when firstly i was told he declined to dress as Santa for a Xmas party as he was Muslim, then showed up to a work function where partners were invited with his wife in a Hijab.
Obviously he only followed the bits that suited him.
I don't have an issue with people who are Muslim. I do believe that the "religion" in how it was conceived and how it's mainly preached is a horrible, repressive, pervasive, controlling thing that has no place in a modern world.
that the majority of people who follow this "faith" do so with good intentions and deliberately pick the good parts to follow from it's teachings doesn't lessen that.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Whether it be Christians holding up anti abortion signs outside a clinic (or shooting doctors inside), hard line orthodox Jews establishing provocative settlements in the West Bank or Muslims becoming radicalised to the point they become willing suicide bombers it's generally the devout who cause most of the trouble.
My assumption is that there are a higher percentage of Muslims who take a more serious approach to there religion and as such the chances of a nutter being produced are greater.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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