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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| The more I think about it, I reckon we should throw everything we've got at 'Two Metre' Peter Wright. It doesn't matter that he's under contract, the fact is if a player really wants to leave, usually a deal can be done. We'd probably have to give up our 1st round pick and a player, but he would be the missing piece in our Premiership jig saw imho. Come on Eddie, it's over to you to use your powers of persuasion. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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It's as plain as the nose on your face that Collingwood needs to recruit a ready made tall forward to play in tandem with Moore next year. However, given the Chris Mayne debacle, and the increased salaries expected to be paid to many of our key players, I reckon there's every chance we won't have much salary space available to throw at bringing in a player. If that's the case, then we may need to give up a player or two, either as trade bait and/or to open up some salary cap space to fit in the large salary of a ready made tall forward - ideally someone like '2 Metre' Peter.
Players I'd consider de-listing and/or trading at season's end would be:
Blair - obviously
Goldsack - unlucky as he is playing well, but given his age, he'd be on good dosh and that money would be better spent on a key forward.
White - never really delivered as hoped for. Unfortunately he's probably not on huge coin, so moving him on might not save us much salary.
Cox - see comments on White.
Sidebottom - a top player of ours, but given our midfield depth, with the emergence of De Goey, Aish, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Sier and possibly even Kirby, I believe he would be replaceable and once again, his large salary could best be used on a tall forward.
These players, especially Sidey and and Goldsack are clearly among our better players atm, so I'm certainly not rubbishing them by having them on my list. All I'm trying to comprise are players we could probably replace, and players on significant coin, such that their moving on would enable us to bring in a ready made power forward. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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I can't imagine there is much trade value there, barring sidebottom, and I would have thought potential cap savings would reflect that too
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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The real question will be, is a ruckman to replace Grundy or a key forward to support Moore more important? Need to give Cox a chance to see if he can be no1 ruck next year.
But Grundy will give us the currency to get in who we need |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| eddiesmith wrote: | The real question will be, is a ruckman to replace Grundy or a key forward to support Moore more important? Need to give Cox a chance to see if he can be no1 ruck next year.
But Grundy will give us the currency to get in who we need |
There's a young ruck playing for GCS who may be worth a look....
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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| Post subject: Re: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: |
Blair - obviously. Will probably become a DFA, and doubtful to be traded. Might find himself on a rookie list somewhere.
Goldsack - unlucky as he is playing well, but given his age, he'd be on good dosh and that money would be better spent on a key forward. A free agent, so cant really be traded. Pies wise to keep him on IMO.
White - never really delivered as hoped for. Unfortunately he's probably not on huge coin, so moving him on might not save us much salary. Like Blair, his contract is up. So depending on who we get in free agency/trade, I'd think it likely that he'd also become a DFA. And again, he might find himself rookie listed, or given a low 1 year deal.
Cox - see comments on White. For the price, he'll be kept I think. But does he have to come off the rookie list?
Sidebottom - a top player of ours, but given our midfield depth, with the emergence of De Goey, Aish, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Sier and possibly even Kirby, I believe he would be replaceable and once again, his large salary could best be used on a tall forward. Big call. Would hate to see Sidey in other colours. He should be in AA contention at this stage in his career, but he isn't. I'd prefer to keep. |
I guess the question is, who is the big forward we'll be after?
Who is gettable?; Walker, no. Schace, no. Casboult, yes (FA). Daniher, no. Hawkins, no. Gunston, yes. Hogan, no. Patton/Cameron, no. 2MP, doubtful. B.Brown, no. J.Riewoldt, no. S.Reid, yes (FA). McCartin, no. Kennedy, no.
KPF's are not in season.
Casboult/Reid are the only two to look at in free agency. Gunston seems to be the only one available via trade. Majak Daw is probably also an easy trade target, but how much of an upgrade on White is he?
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Recent history shows that for whatever reason, there aren't many established KPFs who swap clubs and then go on to be as good, let alone better than at their previous club.
I was looking at recent trades / free agency of KPFs at all clubs and it's frightening just how many haven't played as well at their new club.
There are always a couple exceptions. Buddy is still buddy. Waite has improved at North and Charlie Dixon is finally starting to find the ball.
I would say the jury is still out on Tom Boyd ( other than one game )
I'm just saying that it's an exercise that many clubs have tried but very few have succeeded.
I'm not against going down that route at all but history suggests that it's also a path fraught with danger.
Im a firm believer that a good KPF needs a good midfield to be anywhere near his best, particularly the way the game is played now.
It might even be that certain KPFs are far better suited to particular game styles only.
If nothing else, at least we are far from the only club who has screwed up with a Mayne like deal. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Right now? You are a firm believer that a good KPF needs a good midfield to be near his best the way the game is played? Does it pay well? |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Re: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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| Presti35 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: |
Blair - obviously. Will probably become a DFA, and doubtful to be traded. Might find himself on a rookie list somewhere.
Goldsack - unlucky as he is playing well, but given his age, he'd be on good dosh and that money would be better spent on a key forward. A free agent, so cant really be traded. Pies wise to keep him on IMO.
White - never really delivered as hoped for. Unfortunately he's probably not on huge coin, so moving him on might not save us much salary. Like Blair, his contract is up. So depending on who we get in free agency/trade, I'd think it likely that he'd also become a DFA. And again, he might find himself rookie listed, or given a low 1 year deal.
Cox - see comments on White. For the price, he'll be kept I think. But does he have to come off the rookie list?
Sidebottom - a top player of ours, but given our midfield depth, with the emergence of De Goey, Aish, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Sier and possibly even Kirby, I believe he would be replaceable and once again, his large salary could best be used on a tall forward. Big call. Would hate to see Sidey in other colours. He should be in AA contention at this stage in his career, but he isn't. I'd prefer to keep. |
I guess the question is, who is the big forward we'll be after?
Who is gettable?; Walker, no. Schace, no. Casboult, yes (FA). Daniher, no. Hawkins, no. Gunston, yes. Hogan, no. Patton/Cameron, no. 2MP, doubtful. B.Brown, no. J.Riewoldt, no. S.Reid, yes (FA). McCartin, no. Kennedy, no.
KPF's are not in season.
Casboult/Reid are the only two to look at in free agency. Gunston seems to be the only one available via trade. Majak Daw is probably also an easy trade target, but how much of an upgrade on White is he? |
Contracts mean nothing these days. If a player really wants to leave, then generally the player gets his way, provided the other club are willing to offer enough for a trade. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Post subject: Re: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | It's as plain as the nose on your face that Collingwood needs to recruit a ready made tall forward to play in tandem with Moore next year. However, given the Chris Mayne debacle, and the increased salaries expected to be paid to many of our key players, I reckon there's every chance we won't have much salary space available to throw at bringing in a player. If that's the case, then we may need to give up a player or two, either as trade bait and/or to open up some salary cap space to fit in the large salary of a ready made tall forward - ideally someone like '2 Metre' Peter.
Players I'd consider de-listing and/or trading at season's end would be:
Blair - obviously
Goldsack - unlucky as he is playing well, but given his age, he'd be on good dosh and that money would be better spent on a key forward.
White - never really delivered as hoped for. Unfortunately he's probably not on huge coin, so moving him on might not save us much salary.
Cox - see comments on White.
Sidebottom - a top player of ours, but given our midfield depth, with the emergence of De Goey, Aish, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Sier and possibly even Kirby, I believe he would be replaceable and once again, his large salary could best be used on a tall forward.
These players, especially Sidey and and Goldsack are clearly among our better players atm, so I'm certainly not rubbishing them by having them on my list. All I'm trying to comprise are players we could probably replace, and players on significant coin, such that their moving on would enable us to bring in a ready made power forward. |
Rude I wouldn't agree with our salary cap position for the following reasons.
The cap is basically and 2yr cycle. We have to spend 200% over that period with a minimum of 95% and maximum of 105%
When we would have been in the planning mode we would have assumed that both Swan and Cloke would have been around in 2017 and earning around $1.5m that year. We also had the departures of Williams Kennedy Brown Frost who would have had a combined salary of around $1m a year.
So all of a sudden we had around $2.5m in cap space.
We brought in WHE on modest terms plus Wells and Mayne who have been given decent money. There was also the cap rising from 2018 onwards so the extra money may paid to them may have been allocated now to fulfil our cap obligations leaving us with space to land a fish
Also we don't have many stars other than Pendles Sidey and Treloar who would be on really good money. Grundy Elliott & Moore will command more as time goes on but the remainder of the team would all be on reasonable but not massive money
As for the trades we have nothing of any real value to trade unless we were prepared to give up one of our few stars which would defeat the purpose.
Other than Sidey we wouldn't gain anything other than late 3rd rounders or maybe a upgrade position on the draft.
As for Sidey he won't be traded because there's no value in it for us. Looking at it objectively we over paid for Treloar he wasn't worth 2 X 1st round draft picks simple. Maybe a 1st rounder plus some exchange in future or a add on 3rd rounder. We got pushed to that by Richmond who were desparate to land him at any cost and GWS played one against the other
Dangerfield went to the Cats for pick 9 and a player and that's for a recognised super star.
Sidey signed a 5yr deal last year so he has 4 more years to run on decent money (rumoured to be around $650k a year)
For a club to take over that contract they wouldn't be prepared to give up any pick inside the top 20. If we wanted a pick inside that we would be paying a fair chunk of his salary going forward but that still wouldn't equate to a 1st round draft pick inside the top 10.
Most likely scenario would be a second round pick between 22-30 and the possibility to upgrading some later or future picks and us not having to carry any of his salary on the books.
As for the need of KPF v ruck I would personally just go to the draft and get the best big man available. It's not a immediate fix but we don have Keefe and Schade who might be worth a try up forward plus McLarty who might work as a back up ruck in time.
I don't want to be giving away draft picks anymore to land more midfielders or players who haven't been stars in there current side |
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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| Post subject: Re: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Contracts mean nothing these days. If a player really wants to leave, then generally the player gets his way, provided the other club are willing to offer enough for a trade. |
Who wants to leave their current club? And to go to Collingwood?
_________________
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I would like to see us play Cox in the ruck and move Brodie to the second tall forward position. Brodie has not set the world on fire up forward in the past, but I think he's a much improved player now in all aspects of the game, and he will provide forward pressure which Cox does not. Reid is injury prone when thrown forward so he should stay back. it would be a shame if the solution was already in our side.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Mugwump wrote: | | I would like to see us play Cox in the ruck and move Brodie to the second tall forward position. Brodie has not set the world on fire up forward in the past, but I think he's a much improved player now in all aspects of the game, and he will provide forward pressure which Cox does not. Reid is injury prone when thrown forward so he should stay back. it would be a shame if the solution was already in our side. |
Awful Mugwump, truly awful suggestion
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Re: Recruiting a ready made forward will require sacrifices. | |
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | It's as plain as the nose on your face that Collingwood needs to recruit a ready made tall forward to play in tandem with Moore next year. However, given the Chris Mayne debacle, and the increased salaries expected to be paid to many of our key players, I reckon there's every chance we won't have much salary space available to throw at bringing in a player. If that's the case, then we may need to give up a player or two, either as trade bait and/or to open up some salary cap space to fit in the large salary of a ready made tall forward - ideally someone like '2 Metre' Peter.
Players I'd consider de-listing and/or trading at season's end would be:
Blair - obviously
Goldsack - unlucky as he is playing well, but given his age, he'd be on good dosh and that money would be better spent on a key forward.
White - never really delivered as hoped for. Unfortunately he's probably not on huge coin, so moving him on might not save us much salary.
Cox - see comments on White.
Sidebottom - a top player of ours, but given our midfield depth, with the emergence of De Goey, Aish, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Sier and possibly even Kirby, I believe he would be replaceable and once again, his large salary could best be used on a tall forward.
These players, especially Sidey and and Goldsack are clearly among our better players atm, so I'm certainly not rubbishing them by having them on my list. All I'm trying to comprise are players we could probably replace, and players on significant coin, such that their moving on would enable us to bring in a ready made power forward. |
Rude I wouldn't agree with our salary cap position for the following reasons.
The cap is basically and 2yr cycle. We have to spend 200% over that period with a minimum of 95% and maximum of 105%
When we would have been in the planning mode we would have assumed that both Swan and Cloke would have been around in 2017 and earning around $1.5m that year. We also had the departures of Williams Kennedy Brown Frost who would have had a combined salary of around $1m a year.
So all of a sudden we had around $2.5m in cap space.
We brought in WHE on modest terms plus Wells and Mayne who have been given decent money. There was also the cap rising from 2018 onwards so the extra money may paid to them may have been allocated now to fulfil our cap obligations leaving us with space to land a fish
Also we don't have many stars other than Pendles Sidey and Treloar who would be on really good money. Grundy Elliott & Moore will command more as time goes on but the remainder of the team would all be on reasonable but not massive money
As for the trades we have nothing of any real value to trade unless we were prepared to give up one of our few stars which would defeat the purpose.
Other than Sidey we wouldn't gain anything other than late 3rd rounders or maybe a upgrade position on the draft.
As for Sidey he won't be traded because there's no value in it for us. Looking at it objectively we over paid for Treloar he wasn't worth 2 X 1st round draft picks simple. Maybe a 1st rounder plus some exchange in future or a add on 3rd rounder. We got pushed to that by Richmond who were desparate to land him at any cost and GWS played one against the other
Dangerfield went to the Cats for pick 9 and a player and that's for a recognised super star.
Sidey signed a 5yr deal last year so he has 4 more years to run on decent money (rumoured to be around $650k a year)
For a club to take over that contract they wouldn't be prepared to give up any pick inside the top 20. If we wanted a pick inside that we would be paying a fair chunk of his salary going forward but that still wouldn't equate to a 1st round draft pick inside the top 10.
Most likely scenario would be a second round pick between 22-30 and the possibility to upgrading some later or future picks and us not having to carry any of his salary on the books.
As for the need of KPF v ruck I would personally just go to the draft and get the best big man available. It's not a immediate fix but we don have Keefe and Schade who might be worth a try up forward plus McLarty who might work as a back up ruck in time.
I don't want to be giving away draft picks anymore to land more midfielders or players who haven't been stars in there current side |
My sources tell me that WHE is on big coin - around $700,000 pa. Mayne is on $500,000 (x 4 yrs). Apparently all of our top players had built the increased EBA salaries into their contracts, so there's really no extra space there. Obviously, none of us outside the footy department know the actual story, but my understanding is that we won't have much space left in our salary cap at the end of the year. Chris Mayne 4 x $500,000 - Phuck me! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | I would like to see us play Cox in the ruck and move Brodie to the second tall forward position. Brodie has not set the world on fire up forward in the past, but I think he's a much improved player now in all aspects of the game, and he will provide forward pressure which Cox does not. Reid is injury prone when thrown forward so he should stay back. it would be a shame if the solution was already in our side. |
Awful Mugwump, truly awful suggestion |
Not as bad s it seems. Goldstein has played forward at times. Jolly used to do it a far bit. Wouldn't hurt to try it, Cox is wasted in the VFL. Anything is better than the current arrangement of alternating Crocker and Greenwood at FF. |
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