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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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Running at 18.4 this year. Sav Rocca is really earning his keep at Princes Park...
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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| MagpieBat wrote: | | Running at 18.4 this year. Sav Rocca is really earning his keep at Princes Park... |
MB who was it again that alienated the Rocca's? |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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Not sure if that's a trick question, but Malthouse certainly kicked Sav to the curb quite unceremoniously back in the day. Still haven't gotten over it... 
Sav was actually helping run a couple of sessions with us a couple of pre-seasons back. Pity we couldn't talk him into staying.
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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Agreed saint Mick to blame there, but conversely I believe Bux insisting on a full time coach (and failing miserably to get one) contributed to Sav not coming back.
A combination of two factors perhaps, here's hoping old wounds will heal eventually and big Sav will be happy to be welcomed back to the fold. |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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| MagpieBat wrote: | | Running at 18.4 this year. Sav Rocca is really earning his keep at Princes Park... |
Bring them both over.
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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None of the options specified in this thread are worth it. Reid is a solid player, but he just screams "massively overpaid" waiting to happen. Ditto Casboult.
I'd just punt the position basically. Play a second ruckman type as a tall target / bailout kick (Leigh Brown etc, Darcy is already playing as a backup ruck) and just play a bunch of mids / smalls.
Our 1990 premiership featured a centreman and a winger as our two key forwards for instance.
The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.
Genuine KPF's are rare and are either top 3 picks or father/sons. If you can't get one of them, just ignore it rather than overpaying someone whose primary qualification is "he's tall".
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | None of the options specified in this thread are worth it. Reid is a solid player, but he just screams "massively overpaid" waiting to happen. Ditto Casboult.
I'd just punt the position basically. Play a second ruckman type as a tall target / bailout kick (Leigh Brown etc, Darcy is already playing as a backup ruck) and just play a bunch of mids / smalls.
Our 1990 premiership featured a centreman and a winger as our two key forwards for instance.
The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.
Genuine KPF's are rare and are either top 3 picks or father/sons. If you can't get one of them, just ignore it rather than overpaying someone whose primary qualification is "he's tall". |
and a CHF who played on the wing. 
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.. |
That was a fundamental issue with the Bulldogs in those years, that's why they recruited Barry Hall at the end of 2009.
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| Jezza wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.. |
That was a fundamental issue with the Bulldogs in those years, that's why they recruited Barry Hall at the end of 2009. |
They recruited Hall because they thought he'd make them better. They were wrong, he didn't really help that much.
The point is, a great key forward is great if you can get one, but they're rare and it's better to just not play one than play a bad one because that's what you're supposed to do.
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.. |
That was a fundamental issue with the Bulldogs in those years, that's why they recruited Barry Hall at the end of 2009. |
They recruited Hall because they thought he'd make them better. They were wrong, he didn't really help that much.
The point is, a great key forward is great if you can get one, but they're rare and it's better to just not play one than play a bad one because that's what you're supposed to do. |
2010 Collingwood premiership side had Jolly in the ruck, Dawes at CHF, Cloke at FF and Leigh Brown in the forward pocket. What does our 2017 side have by comparison? You can gloss over it any way you like. Key forwards are critical, either by kicking goals themselves or bringing the ball to the ground for the small forwards to kick goals. Bad tall forwards are like bad small forwards or bad mids. You don't play bad anythings so I don't understand the point you're making here. |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.. |
That was a fundamental issue with the Bulldogs in those years, that's why they recruited Barry Hall at the end of 2009. |
They recruited Hall because they thought he'd make them better. They were wrong, he didn't really help that much.
The point is, a great key forward is great if you can get one, but they're rare and it's better to just not play one than play a bad one because that's what you're supposed to do. |
2010 Collingwood premiership side had Jolly in the ruck, Dawes at CHF, Cloke at FF and Leigh Brown in the forward pocket. What does our 2017 side have by comparison? You can gloss over it any way you like. Key forwards are critical, either by kicking goals themselves or bringing the ball to the ground for the small forwards to kick goals. Bad tall forwards are like bad small forwards or bad mids. You don't play bad anythings so I don't understand the point you're making here. |
Well, yes, you don't play bad anythings if you can help it, but it's much easier to find good / decent mids and small forwards than tall forwards. I'd rather we just pick our best 22 players regardless of position rather than play someone who sucks for the sake of "structure" or whatever the excuse is.
In regards to the other part of your statement, Grundy is more than solid as a ruckman and Moore can be our backup ruck / tall forward. Cloke was a genuine gun in his day and basically shows that good KPF's are really hard to find. We only got him as a father / son. Dawes was a bit of an exception in that he was a useful tall forward who wasn't either a very high draft pick or a father / son.
We're going to struggle to get a Dawes type, let alone Cloke and I'd rather not pay through the nose just to get a mediocre replica.
Currently, I think our key defenders are a bigger problem than our forwards.
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | The 2008-09 Bulldogs won a lot of games with Mitch Hahn as their "primary key forward" for those who think this can't work.. |
That was a fundamental issue with the Bulldogs in those years, that's why they recruited Barry Hall at the end of 2009. |
They recruited Hall because they thought he'd make them better. They were wrong, he didn't really help that much.
The point is, a great key forward is great if you can get one, but they're rare and it's better to just not play one than play a bad one because that's what you're supposed to do. |
2010 Collingwood premiership side had Jolly in the ruck, Dawes at CHF, Cloke at FF and Leigh Brown in the forward pocket. What does our 2017 side have by comparison? You can gloss over it any way you like. Key forwards are critical, either by kicking goals themselves or bringing the ball to the ground for the small forwards to kick goals. Bad tall forwards are like bad small forwards or bad mids. You don't play bad anythings so I don't understand the point you're making here. |
Great Key forwards are worth their weight in gold.
Good role players can be valuable to the team without dominating in their own right (see Dawes and brown in 2010)
Dogs won last year with no key forwards once Boyd went into the ruck.
2015 Hawks had Roughead and Shoenmakers
2014 Hawks won with roughead and Hale vs Swans who had franklin, Goodes, reid and Tippett.
We're playing good footy with a small forward line, by all means look for either a great key forward or a good role player who will work with our system, but not just play guys because they're tall.
I still think Cox can be the tall role player.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| I really hope Buckley plays Cox, starting the PA game, because he stiffens up our spine. White must be close to returning to the side as well. That will go a long way to fixing up our problems in attack. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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Reid will be a mistake, as injury prone as his brother but he's less consistant, our pathetic list management team got us into this and now we're supposed to trust them to get us out of it? Lol, i don't think so, come seasons end we need a massive cleanout.
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Presti35 wrote: | | MagpieBat wrote: | | Running at 18.4 this year. Sav Rocca is really earning his keep at Princes Park... |
Bring them both over. |
And both landed at Vic Park in 2018, in forever what would be known as "The Roccaboult Scandal"...
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