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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Just as Neil said. Recruit the best KPP available at our 2-5 draft pick. Anything else is suicidal. |
Bingo....... stop stuffing around with free agency and giving away too much for guys who have potential but are unproven (Shacke). It looks like we are going to have a top 5 pick. Let's get the best KPP in the draft and develop our own.
Surely we have learnt the lessons of the last few years.
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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With Reid injured again and looking less likely to ever be a reliable dominant force again, imo we do not have a single good KPP on our entire list - no FB, CHB, FHF or FF. Dunn is giving his all, but is actually a washed up player desperately hanging on for an extra year or two. Shade is an average tall, but way too skinny for a key defensive role imo. Moore is really a 3rd marking forward, being forced to assume the key forward role, because there's no-one else. Finally, Cox is a (so far) failed experiment. That's it. The cupboard is bare.
I reckon we will have to move Howe forward and bring in Scharenberg to replace him in defence. The only other medium tall we might soon have available is Langdon. The only bright note is that the Bulldogs showed last year that a team can win the flag without KPPs. Who'd have thunk it? |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Just as Neil said. Recruit the best KPP available at our 2-5 draft pick. Anything else is suicidal. |
What If the Pick is between 7-10?
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Just as Neil said. Recruit the best KPP available at our 2-5 draft pick. Anything else is suicidal. |
What If the Pick is between 7-10? |
There will still be " good " talls available but that also includes KPBs and rucks.
I was talking to an TAC under 18 development officer the other day who reckoned this could be a good draft to have a second round pick available for a tall too.
Not because there will still be guaranteed quality but because there will still be enough talls around this time. If you do your homework properly, there could well be a tall diamond in the rough still available in the second round. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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What about this McCartin from the saints, in the magooes, make a play for him to spruce up our dire forward line woes. Hmmm. ??
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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| MagpieBat wrote: | | I personally think they will look to buy Sam Reid through Free Agency for the now and look to trade for Josh Schache for the later |
| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Reid makes logical sense. Swans need cap space and have other options but Tippett may be the one they put on the market his salary is more he is older and Reid seems to fit better be with Buddy. Tippett wouldn't cost any more draft wise and also can play back up ruck so might fit our needs a bit more. |
| Piesnchess wrote: | | What about this McCartin from the saints, in the magooes, make a play for him to spruce up our dire forward line woes. Hmmm. ?? |
Reid is probably the only choice for us going into 2018. At age 25 and with his brother here, it seems likely that he'll want to play here.
Im not sure about Tippett. He is 30 but would be better than anyone we have to back up Grundy. As a forward, I think he isn't the player he was a few seasons ago. Basically its the age that turns me off. He's been on the decline over the past 2 years. I'd like to know what he'd cost us in trade. If it was SFA, than maybe.
McCartin and Schache would be great, but do we have the assets to make a trade? Probably not. And both clubs would be hesitant to deal with Collingwood, especially the Lions again.
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| I would rather the Tippett brother at North and he's been delisted ! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The KPP succession plan has worked brilliantly. Let's get rid of Cloke and replace him with ... absolutely nobody of AFL-standard. Because that'll work.
It beggars belief that so many of you were so invested in Cloke being thrown from the top of the building when it was so glaringly obvious that there was no-one else. The suggestion seemed to be that he wasn't an "all-time great" because his kicking was unreliable, so we should move him on. Well, guess what - we didn't have Hart, Brereton or Carey waiting to take over at the peak of their powers, so this is the consequence - a great, big, gaping hole where a CHF used to be.
The present state of disarray up forward is what you get when you lose Didak, Cloke, Thomas, Dawes and Krakouer and replace them with guys who have, on average, about half their collective football ability. Of course those players needed to be replaced but - as I have said before - you don't replace players of that standard with players gathered predominantly from the discount bin at the $2 shop. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The KPP succession plan has worked brilliantly. Let's get rid of Cloke and replace him with ... absolutely nobody of AFL-standard. Because that'll work.
It beggars belief that so many of you were so invested in Cloke being thrown from the top of the building when it was so glaringly obvious that there was no-one else. The suggestion seemed to be that he wasn't an "all-time great" because his kicking was unreliable, so we should move him on. Well, guess what - we didn't have Hart, Brereton or Carey waiting to take over at the peak of their powers, so this is the consequence - a great, big, gaping hole where a CHF used to be.
The present state of disarray up forward is what you get when you lose Didak, Cloke, Thomas, Dawes and Krakouer and replace them with guys who have, on average, about half their collective football ability. Of course those players needed to be replaced but - as I have said before - you don't replace players of that standard with players gathered predominantly from the discount bin at the $2 shop. |
Absolutely 100% correct.
I said in the one million page cloke thread that a power forward comes along about once every 20 years.
And even a half of a power forward which cloke now is, well he is still worth much more than what is currently running around.
It was unbelievable that the predominately bux lovers were gunning for cloke.
And we have nothing to replace him with.
the $600 grand to a slow plodder in Mayne is about where we are at.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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| Johnno75 wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Just as Neil said. Recruit the best KPP available at our 2-5 draft pick. Anything else is suicidal. |
Bingo....... stop stuffing around with free agency and giving away too much for guys who have potential but are unproven (Shacke). It looks like we are going to have a top 5 pick. Let's get the best KPP in the draft and develop our own.
Surely we have learnt the lessons of the last few years. |
Can't agree more.....we have spent too much time worrying about "free agents" and the "trade table" ....lets get back to the draft and try and bring in the talent naturally. I doubt we have the money to go big on free agents anyway.
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"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Casboult is 27. Big body and a great pair of hands. Kicking has improved but still Clokeish.
Reid is 25, very good player but more of a 2nd or 3rd tall forward. Wouldn't say no if we can get him.
My thought is with the age profile of our midfield, to jump up the ladder we need a mature KP marking target for now to support Darcy and a young KP forward prospect to come through as Darcy matures. Given Darcy is best suited at the moment to a roaming CHF, I'd go for Casboult as a free agent and use our draft picks on the best available KP forward.
At 27, if we can get 3 years out of Casboult, that buys 3 years for Darcy to take on the number one role and the young draftee to develop into the other key role.
I'd take Schache but the brions would swindle us at the trade table, plus it would be adding another young bloke now pushing our window back another 2-3 years.
Someone needs to tell Hine that if he drafts another half back flanker, ever, he'll find his meat and two vege sandwiched between two anvils and 240 volts connected. You don't draft defenders, you draft midfielders and forwards. You can turn them into defenders if they don't work out up forward, but trying to turn defenders into forwards doesn't work.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | The KPP succession plan has worked brilliantly. Let's get rid of Cloke and replace him with ... absolutely nobody of AFL-standard. Because that'll work.
It beggars belief that so many of you were so invested in Cloke being thrown from the top of the building when it was so glaringly obvious that there was no-one else. The suggestion seemed to be that he wasn't an "all-time great" because his kicking was unreliable, so we should move him on. Well, guess what - we didn't have Hart, Brereton or Carey waiting to take over at the peak of their powers, so this is the consequence - a great, big, gaping hole where a CHF used to be.
The present state of disarray up forward is what you get when you lose Didak, Cloke, Thomas, Dawes and Krakouer and replace them with guys who have, on average, about half their collective football ability. Of course those players needed to be replaced but - as I have said before - you don't replace players of that standard with players gathered predominantly from the discount bin at the $2 shop. |
Cloke is a Jurassic dinosaur and will be flat out getting a gig with the dogs, when roughead and redpath are in full flight. Nobody wanted didak in the draft, nobody, Dawes was a spud at the Deees, dollar daisy pissed off for more cash, and has given the scum sweet FA. Krak may have had one more season in him, but no certainty. You cant re write history, those players were done, look at Thomas, an injury wreck. I do agree with you we should have at least had one KP forward to help Moore, but I guess the powers that be thought Moore , Fas, Elliott, white, cox, would do the job, with Howe pinch hitting, but so far its not gone as we planned. Next draft, no matter what the cost, get a KP real gun forward, that's the lesson.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| stui magpie wrote: | Casboult is 27. Big body and a great pair of hands. Kicking has improved but still Clokeish.
Reid is 25, very good player but more of a 2nd or 3rd tall forward. Wouldn't say no if we can get him.
My thought is with the age profile of our midfield, to jump up the ladder we need a mature KP marking target for now to support Darcy and a young KP forward prospect to come through as Darcy matures. Given Darcy is best suited at the moment to a roaming CHF, I'd go for Casboult as a free agent and use our draft picks on the best available KP forward.
At 27, if we can get 3 years out of Casboult, that buys 3 years for Darcy to take on the number one role and the young draftee to develop into the other key role.
I'd take Schache but the brions would swindle us at the trade table, plus it would be adding another young bloke now pushing our window back another 2-3 years.
Someone needs to tell Hine that if he drafts another half back flanker, ever, he'll find his meat and two vege sandwiched between two anvils and 240 volts connected. You don't draft defenders, you draft midfielders and forwards. You can turn them into defenders if they don't work out up forward, but trying to turn defenders into forwards doesn't work. |
I thought the same thing as you watching training this morning. I could see about 7 half back flankers out there ready to go on Saturday night. You can only play 3. On the other hand I couldn't see too many tall forwards out there. When your back up tall forwards are McCarthy and Lynch, you know you're in trouble. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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If we make an official move on Schache, it has to be at the death. Behind the scenes is another matter.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | The KPP succession plan has worked brilliantly. Let's get rid of Cloke and replace him with ... absolutely nobody of AFL-standard. Because that'll work.
It beggars belief that so many of you were so invested in Cloke being thrown from the top of the building when it was so glaringly obvious that there was no-one else. The suggestion seemed to be that he wasn't an "all-time great" because his kicking was unreliable, so we should move him on. Well, guess what - we didn't have Hart, Brereton or Carey waiting to take over at the peak of their powers, so this is the consequence - a great, big, gaping hole where a CHF used to be.
The present state of disarray up forward is what you get when you lose Didak, Cloke, Thomas, Dawes and Krakouer and replace them with guys who have, on average, about half their collective football ability. Of course those players needed to be replaced but - as I have said before - you don't replace players of that standard with players gathered predominantly from the discount bin at the $2 shop. |
Cloke is a Jurassic dinosaur and will be flat out getting a gig with the dogs, when roughead and redpath are in full flight. Nobody wanted didak in the draft, nobody, Dawes was a spud at the Deees, dollar daisy pissed off for more cash, and has given the scum sweet FA. Krak may have had one more season in him, but no certainty. You cant re write history, those players were done, look at Thomas, an injury wreck. I do agree with you we should have at least had one KP forward to help Moore, but I guess the powers that be thought Moore , Fas, Elliott, white, cox, would do the job, with Howe pinch hitting, but so far its not gone as we planned. Next draft, no matter what the cost, get a KP real gun forward, that's the lesson. |
My point, in case you were incapable of understanding it (as distinct from deliberately misinterpreting it), was that we have, in general terms, been extremely adept at replacing good (or great) players with guys who are, on the whole, neither good nor great.
We all accept that those players required replacing - what they didn't require was replacement with generally inferior cattle. |
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