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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Post subject: Freedom of speech just not on Anzac Day, thanks. |  |
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Another year, another TV presenter getting in trouble for saying something 'offensive' on Anzac Day.
http://junkee.com/anzac-day-hypocrisy-conservatives/103169
| Quote: | The post read: Lest. We. Forget. (Manus, Nauru, Syria, Palestine). It was written by activist and author Yassmin Abdel-Magied and it turned some of the countrys staunchest defenders of free speech into a troupe they would normally deride as hyper-triggered, PC-police.
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Acting PM Barnaby Joyce said the ABC should take further action against Abdel-Magied. The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has labelled her a disgrace, Senator Eriz Abetz called her comments reprehensible while Liberal MP George Christensen called for her to be sacked, adding that self-deportation should also be considered. |
We already know that the current Government are hypocrites when it comes to free speech: on the one hand, they pretend that it's the bedrock of civilisation whenever section 18C comes up, taking a more or less radical libertarian approach to the topic (for what it's worth, I agree with George Brandis's much-mocked remark about people having "the right to be a bigot"), but at the same time they do everything they can to undermine freedom of expression when it suits them.
This is probably the worst example of it yet: government figures trying to get a presenter sanctioned or sacked for something she wrote on her personal social media page, and one going as far as to suggest that she leave the country. So much for free speech!
The irony is that she could have posted much worse or more provocative things (like calling the Anzacs rapists, as Catherine Deveny did a few years back) and I would have defended her under the Voltaire principle, as should have anyone who cared about freedom of expression. But I struggle to even see what was particularly offensive about what she wrote; at worst, it was an annoying exercise in whataboutery (but then, I'm happy for people to be shouting from the rooftops about what we're doing on Manus Island and Nauru 24/7). But Christ almighty: is Anzac Day and what it represents so sacred and untouchable that it cannot be criticised or used to service a broader political statement?
Next time you hear someone crap on about the quintessentially Australian values of being laidback and irreverent, point them to the comments by Joyce, Dutton, Christensen and co. Point them to the breathtakingly awful Daily Telegraph front page in the article above. Point them to the hundreds of comments under News Corp articles on this demanding that this woman go back to where she came from.
Australia, time to get the collective pole out of our arses and start actually practising what we preach on freedom of expression. You don't have to like Abdel-Magied or what she wrote, but last time I looked we can handle diversity of opinion. Can't we?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I guess it works both ways.
She is entitled to her opinion and they're entitled to call her a "disgrace" in response.
Calling for her to be sacked is a step to far though.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Freedom of speech means freedom from prosecution (18C), not freedom from people getting angry at you, calling you a dickhead or calling for an employer to fire you or a boycott. This isn't a witch hunt of some nobody saying something stupid, this is a commentator using her platform to be offensive for political purposes.
**** her. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Nup **** it she did it deliberately so she can cop it back, no sympathy and as for her job, well if her employer finds her attitude at odds with theirs, seeya later
Don't poke a bear if you Dont want to get bit
Snap Wokko!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Her attitude is perfectly aligned with the ABC's, it's why they've supported her so far. In the absence of commercial incentive they can be as big a back of wankers as they like. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Believing she should be sacked because you don't like her opinion is the complete opposite of what the Liberal party apparently stand for with 18c.
Sure you can call her out on her comments, that's what free speech is but calling for a sanction because of them is a complete and utter double standard.
That I think was Davids main point and I agree.
Personally I have no problem with speech even a hateful one as long as it's not advocating violence, harassment or intimidation of an individual person or minority.
For example calling someone a [snip] because you've gotten into a heated argument or simply using it within a throwaway line on a bulletin board is fine with me.
Calling for someone to be bashed or harassing them verbally without provocation as they walk along a street because they are one isn't.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I agree with all the responses so far.
Freedom from persecution doesn't mean freedom from criticism.
"Activist" 
Poor petal tried to make a point and misjudged the room. Guess her normal echo chamber on facebook isn't as dumb as she thought.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Freedom of speech just not on Anzac Day, thanks. | |
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| David wrote: | Another year, another TV presenter getting in trouble for saying something 'offensive' on Anzac Day.
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Australia, time to get the collective pole out of our arses and start actually practising what we preach on freedom of expression. You don't have to like Abdel-Magied or what she wrote, but last time I looked we can handle diversity of opinion. Can't we? |
With due respect she's an idiot. Not for what she posted so much as her timing.
When she pressed the enter button what response did she think she would get? We don't need her stupidity & lack of savvy on the ABC. Sack her & employ Catherine Deveney instead.
The woman in question is far better off being employed as an Engineer ( her qualification) as her performance this year in the media (Q & A) did her no credit despite the obvious logic of her argument compared to the ignorance of Jackie Lambie regarding Sharia Law is & isn't.
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âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| Wokko wrote: | Freedom of speech means freedom from prosecution (18C), not freedom from people getting angry at you, calling you a dickhead or calling for an employer to fire you or a boycott. This isn't a witch hunt of some nobody saying something stupid, this is a commentator using her platform to be offensive for political purposes.
**** her. |
Well said - agree 100%!!
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âThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.â |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'm no fan either WPT, and I'm annoyed that her look-at-me rant/public walk-out re: Lionel Shriver at the Writers Festival seems to have propelled her career forward (though this may have been coincidental).
Still, what's with all this holier-than-thou handwringing? If her point was "make sure we also remember all of the other human rights violations happening today", then ... what's so awful and intolerable about that?
As for freedom of speech not meaning freedom from consequences, that's usually the argument I hear from the left in defence of no-platforming at universities and the like. Actually, that's a total fallacy: freedom of expression does necessarily entail freedom from certain consequences.
Anyone, for instance, can stand in the middle of Pyongyang and scream about what a ¢@%! Kim Jong-un is while waving an American flag, but the consequences of that act won't be pretty. Do North Koreans therefore enjoy "freedom of speech"? Um, no. Likewise, if you can get sacked from your job merely for voicing a political opinion on your Facebook page, then that's a serious incursion on freedom of expression what's known as a chilling effect. Particularly when that employer happens to be a government-funded media organisation and there's a chance that its funding might be dependent on how it responds to incidents like these. So no, freedom of speech does mean freedom from certain consequences, and I think one's livelihood being threatened is pretty high up there.
I also don't buy this argument that it's ok to criticise Anzac Day on every other day of the year but that we should hold our peace on the 25th of April. #@£& that. Don't impose your feelings of reverence on others. If our soldiers have fought for anything useful over the past 100 years, it's the right to be free of such jackbooted authoritarianism.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| Post subject: Re: Freedom of speech just not on Anzac Day, thanks. | |
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | Another year, another TV presenter getting in trouble for saying something 'offensive' on Anzac Day.
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Australia, time to get the collective pole out of our arses and start actually practising what we preach on freedom of expression. You don't have to like Abdel-Magied or what she wrote, but last time I looked we can handle diversity of opinion. Can't we? |
With due respect she's an idiot. Not for what she posted so much as her timing. |
Oh she is not an idiot WPT - she knew exactly what she was doing - she knows the significance of the words "Lest We Forget". She doesn't care - self important wannabe with her own agenda!!
"Ms Abdel-Magied has served as a member of the Australian Multicultural Council, Federal ANZAC Centenary Commemoration Youth Working Group and the 2014 Youth G20 Summit"
http://dfat.gov.au/people-to-people/foundations-councils-institutes/caar/management/Pages/yassmin-abdel-magied.aspx
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âThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.â |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Is there a trademark on the phrase "lest we forget"? Are we only permitted to intone it like rites at a Latin mass, and not think about what it actually means or how else it might be applied?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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You just don't get it do you.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Actually, I suspect that a great many people lack the critical faculties to 'get' anything from this other than 'burn the heretic'. But please feel free to enlighten me.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | I'm no fan either WPT, and I'm annoyed that her look-at-me rant/public walk-out re: Lionel Shriver .......
I also don't buy this argument that it's ok to criticise Anzac Day on every other day of the year but that we should hold our peace on the 25th of April. #@£& that. Don't impose your feelings of reverence on others. If our soldiers have fought for anything useful over the past 100 years, it's the right to be free of such jackbooted authoritarianism. |
It's not reverence & frankly I don't like a lot of this baloney patriotism either. Well before your time the RSL would not allow Vietnam Vets to march because the RSL did not consider the Vietnam war to be a war.
Don't tell Mugwump though as he blames the ill treatment of Vietnam Vets (and the worlds woes) solely to the left & this doesn't fit the conservatives re-writing of this history - sorry narrative.
Please don't attribute meanings to me that I have not used.
I still think she's an idiot & this is related to timing.
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âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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