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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Post subject: What do we mean when we talk about political correctness? | |
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Here is an excellent brief history of where the phrase "political correctness" comes from and what it means to the right.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/23/political-correctness-has-no-meaning-thats-the-main-appeal
Having said that, I do disagree with one of Sparrow's central contentions: that the phrase "political correctness" is inherently meaningless. As much as it's misused both by the right (as described in the article) and in popular culture (to describe nearly any non-traditional constraint on society), I feel like it still has a useful definition.
Political correctness can be roughly defined as the concept (emerging from postmodernist/post-structuralist academic traditions, but also present in earlier Marxist traditions) that words and symbols shape the way we view the world, and that politically conscious people must therefore strive to use the right terminology (or clothing, or symbols) and actively discourage usage of non-ideal words or phrases, and so on. Invariably, it is viewed that there is only one right approach and many wrong ones, which makes the description "political correctness" fairly appropriate.
This, I think, is what most people understood the phrase to mean in the '90s; and while its definition has been muddied since, the phenomenon it describes is still a prevalent one. If we choose not to use the phrase "political correctness" to refer to that approach, or claim that it is a phrase without meaning, then we need to at least recognise the existence of the phenomenon described above and be able to weigh its pros and cons.
The most positive interpretation of political correctness is offered by the identitarian left: specifically, the oft-heard expression that "political correctness means simply being a decent human being". The argument goes that, as language and other symbology can be oppressive and cause harm to disadvantaged groups, monitoring one's language demonstrates basic respect and empathy.
There is a lot to be said for this approach, but there are nevertheless valid criticisms of it, and not just from the right. Personally, I believe that the '90s post-structuralist left greatly overestimated the ability of language and symbology to construct reality. This can be seen in the fact that politically correct terms never seem to stick around for long and sometimes even end up being 'reclaimed' as slurs themselves, thus necessitating new terminology (a partial example of this phenomenon being the once-popular derogatory expression "that's so gay"). If anything, I would argue that words and symbols are mostly at the whim of cultural norms, not the other way around.
Not only is a fixation on language often ineffective, I feel that it can be problematic, too leading to the creation of in-group enforcing shibboleths, use of terminology to signal virtue, a preoccupation with self-correction and even a reluctance to engage with entire ideas for fear of saying the wrong thing. Furthermore, it becomes a stick to beat progressives with; not just from the right, but from mainstream society as a whole where the suggestion that, say, one should avoid addressing a mixed-gender group as "you guys" is immediately seen as an absurd, reified and (perhaps most importantly) oppressive form of language policing. That is necessarily alienating, and affects the broader credibility with which left-wing discourse is held. And that can be, as the election of Donald Trump in the US has demonstrated, a politically potent form of alienation.
Of course, much of what Trump and his supporters call "political correctness" has little if anything to do with what I've written above, as Sparrow's piece points out it's mostly a grab bag of misplaced nostalgia for the good old days, resentment that hardcore racism and misogyny are no longer socially acceptable and belief in silly conservative myths like the supposed "war on Christmas". But there is a real phenomenon there underneath all the right-wing culture war debris, and it is one that we need to be able to recognise and discuss on its merits.
Political correctness cannot be glibly dismissed as something dreamt up by right-wing ideologues. It is a real, complex phenomenon with both useful and counterproductive aspects. We can pretend it doesn't exist all we like, but others will continue to recognise it; and while they can, it will remain a powerful rhetorical tool of the right, no matter how much they misunderstand it. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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^ I don't think that's ideologically sound. _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Language will always be contested politically. The important aspect of the debate at the moment appears to me to be that "challenging political correctness" is an expression the bigot-right uses to give itself poetic licence to pronounce hideous and unacceptable views that would have been rejected by fair-minded conservatives as objectionable and obnoxious. Thus "We've got to end all this political correctness" is frequently code for "I don't like people who aren't white". |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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For decades the Left and progressives have been able to stifle discussion by intellectual laziness through simply labeling someone a racist, a misogynist, a fascist for just about anything; this was an easy way to win debates. Like diving for fee kicks, it works until it doesnt work. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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So, when is a person racist, misogynist or fascist? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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So basically it's an excuse for bad manners, shitty morals, or difference of opinion _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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London Dave
Jete jedna pivo prosím
Joined: 16 Dec 1998 Location: Iceland on Thames
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think positive wrote: | So basically it's an excuse for bad manners, shitty morals, or difference of opinion |
First two for sure... I'd add bad manners too! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pi wrote: | For decades the Left and progressives have been able to stifle discussion by intellectual laziness through simply labeling someone a racist, a misogynist, a fascist for just about anything; this was an easy way to win debates. Like diving for fee kicks, it works until it doesnt work. |
I think that's an element of it and part of the genesis of the current pushback.
My brain isn't really in the space for this at the moment, I started reading that article but found it so slanted i couldn't read it.
There's actually a lot more sense in David's summary post. Words and symbols but also ideals.
My take on it is that the progressives drive the progressive agenda, usually well meaning and well intentioned. Fairness, equity, equality. Things you'd like to think most sensible people would have no issue with at concept. it's in the conversion from ideals to action that it falls apart.
The traffic light walk symbol is a recent example.
Others would include gay marriage and muslim immigration. Anyone who disagrees with these things (including questioing Islam ) are labelled Racist, homophobic, facist, sexist, misogynist etc etc . So what this stifling of debate leads to is only those who don't care, or who can benefit from pushing an "anti PC" agenda publically vocalise their thoughts, whereas the majority who may hold opinions that differ from the public agenda, remain silent for fear of retribution but feel anger at that suppression. That turns into the "political correctness gone mad" kick back at any opportunity.
Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas
Political Correctness is also becoming intertwined in many minds with the "nanny state" agenda which seems to constantly seek to remove the element of personal responsibility and penalise the majority for the sins of the few.
So, for mine, political correctness is becoming increasingly used to mean the progressive agenda and the way it uses words and symbols, but also the way it stifles genuine debate and discussion. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Conservatism stifles debate by labelling every idea it rejects as "political correctness". It's a right wing pu(t)s(c)h. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Ok, so for an unusual turn of events, we have the outer fringes in direct conflict and the average punter the meat in the sandwich. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Pies4shaw wrote: | So, when is a person racist, misogynist or fascist? |
When they actively prescribe lesser rights for women, or people of a different race/colour, within the same politico-legal system ; or, in the case of "fascist", when they subscribe (formally or informally) to a party that has a fascist ideology - and no, fascism is not "stuff on the right of politics that I do not like". It refers to an historical movement with clear characteristics.
Not when they disagree with the boilerplate Leftist view of the world on subjects which merely touch these groups. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Oh I get an historical movement with clear characteristics . |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Good OP, David.
It is indeed many things. Some things (such as the prohibition on the N word) are simply politeness and a desire to avoid words which carry a strong freight of oppression through history (and imply approbation for it). That is unproblematic and pretty reasonable.
The more sinister roots of political correctness, however, lie in the view that certain value judgements are actually matters of fact, and people who disagree with a certain party line are actually morally bad, mad or treasonous to progress. This is the Sovietist/Maoist origin of the phrase, where it justified sending people to various re-education (torture and death) camps. We have not reached that stage of institutional collapse (yet), but the mindset seems to be the same my opponent is not acting in good faith but is actually wicked or sick.
If one is on the moderate right (ie like about 55-60% of the population, I suspect), one gets used to dissent from the standard Left view being characterised as racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia, fascism, imperialism, etc. This battery of pathologising terms comes from people on the quite mainstream left, who really cannot believe that those with different views might have the wellbeing of humanity in their heart as well. This characterisation of one way of thinking as healthy, and the other as pathological, is how Sovietist political correctness has infiltrated our culture and discourse. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Language will always be contested politically. The important aspect of the debate at the moment appears to me to be that "challenging political correctness" is an expression the bigot-right uses to give itself poetic licence to pronounce hideous and unacceptable views that would have been rejected by fair-minded conservatives as objectionable and obnoxious. Thus "We've got to end all this political correctness" is frequently code for "I don't like people who aren't white". |
Nail mostly hits head. I would have said political licence rather than poetic. Further it is that but more.
Sometimes I feel I am being run over by a language truck that will make me scared of cars. _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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