Recruiters

[Jezza]

I suspect Thompsoc will feel a sense of vindication here and this might be a knee-jerk reaction to last night's result, but would it be wise for the club to start considering alternatives when it comes to our recruiting and list management staff?

We've been very critical of the coach and he's a part of the overall issues we're dealing with at the moment, but are the recruiters also to blame for much of what is wrong with the club?

Most notably, with the issue of recruiting players that can't seemingly kick and are in many ways one-dimensional in their skills and ability to play the modern game effectively.

Derek Hine has been at the club for over a decade now, and much of his reputation of being one of the best recruiters in the industry was built off from who he recruited in the 2000s and which we benefited from 2009 to 2012, and the way players develop is out of his control but none of high draft picks from the last few years have blossomed the way we hoped.

Scharenberg, De Goey, Freeman (substitute for Aish) and Moore haven't really blossomed and yet were all recruited under Derek Hine's watch.

I understand a sense of patience is required with these players due to young age and inexperience and Hine isn't in charge of how the players develop, but Scharenberg is coming off serious injuries and I have concerns he'll never reach his full potential despite our best attempts.

There's also concerns about De Goey off the field as we've seen recently, will the optimism in Aish pay off and Moore's role as the number one forward at only 21 years of age is only becoming problematic for his development in my opinion.

With the way the list has been shaped and the lack of key position depth at the present moment, does Hine and the recruiting staff have to be held accountable amongst others?

So the question is, does the club need to rethink its recruiting strategy or do we need new personnel completely?

[MarkOSuv]

Last year, Gubby marched all 4 recruiters into his office and grilled them given he didn't rate the list and the type of players on the list.

In 2006, we had a clear strategy. We drafted talls and let them develop whilst the likes of Rocca were fazed out.

Right now, we have no clear recruiting strategy.

Are we topping up?

Are we rebuilding?

It seems like an unclear strategy.

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

We've been doing both, but clearly 'the save my job' factor has pushed it towards the former.

[Pies4shaw]

I think our "man overboard" strategy in 2012 and 2013 has proved to be very problematic. I supported it at the time, for the most part, though - and I do understand what the Club was trying to achieve.

We plainly lacked top-end talent on the list by the end of 2012 and the Club did everything it reasonably could to get into early draft picks. Unfortunately, only Grundy has come good from any of that trading/losing players for picks. Scharenberg, Kennedy and Freeman have all been busts. It is still, I suppose, possible that Scharenberg may become a good player but it is only magical thinking that would see him as a key player in a premiership side, based on his on-field output so far. Langdon is also, in my view, a very fine player but he was, after all, taken as a pick in the 60s, so we could have recruited him without defenestrating established players for picks.

Thus, Moore aside, I think our last top-10 pick presently getting a game at the Club may be Ben Reid. He was drafted in 2006. I think the chalk and cheese outcomes of the 2005/6 and 2012/3 drafts probably tell much of the tale. In 2005, we drafted two killer midfielders and in 2006, we drafted a FF, FB and CHB good enough to play in a premiership side. So far, from 2012/2013 we have a great ruckman and a fine half-back flanker.

Our lateral recruiting has also, I think, reflected a "grass is always greener on the other side" approach - the Club has, at times, appeared to over-value players at other clubs and under-value our own. That probably hasn't mattered too much, on balance - I think the Club's perception that we needed more talent brought into the Club was correct and I won't criticise the strategy. The implementation has, of course, been limited by who has been available to recruit and who we have had of value that we could deal out.

Ultimately, though, I don't feel qualified to make a call on whether all the "missed" draft picks have been below par or whether the training, coaching etc has let the draft picks down.

Whatever the answer, at the moment I would only willingly select the following guys to play AFL football for Collingwood by choice, if they were available and based on their on-field exploits, so far:

Reid
Langdon
Ramsay
Sidebottom
Pendlebury
Treloar
Grundy
Elliott
Wells
Moore

I'm not suggesting, of course, that there aren't plenty of good, solid footballers on the list and some with heaps of potential - but there just isn't enough top-end talent to put on the park that you can be genuinely confident will win the battle. We could argue at the margins (I realise that at least 2 of the players on that list are controversial and I only really included Moore on athletic potential - he isn't 30% of the player his father was by the same age) and no doubt I haven't taken enough account of the upside of some players. But, really, having regard to what they contributed to Collingwood's success while they played with us, I don't think we've been able to replace enough of the 2010/11 class players of the likes of Didak, Thomas, Ball, Swan, Shaw, Maxwell, Cloke, Krak, Johnson, Jolly, Taz, Wellingham and H. Every one of those players was capable of being in Collingwood's top five on the ground on any given day against any opposition, even in the biggest finals they played.

No, of course I'm not saying they should still be at the Club - I'm just trying to evaluate, fairly, the relative quality of who's gone and who we've got in their place. On any view - and despite everyone's best efforts, we've lost way more class by attrition (and, in a couple of cases, deliberate trading) than we've brought in.

[neil]

Our problem is we played finals for most of a decade therefore our picks were all late add in the GC GWS recruiting years and we like other clubs had problems recruiting key players

[MarkOSuv]

Our recruiting is a dogs breakfast currently.

Take our 2014 draft for example. It was as clear as day that we needed succession planning for Travis Cloke. He was a key forward at 29 nearing an age where most key forwards struggle.

We had Pick 5 and Pick 10.

We had the opportunity to draft Peter Wright at 5 to partner Darcy Moore and build a 1/2 combo like Hawthorn did in 05' with Buddy and Roughead.

Instead we picked up a midfielder in De Goey who has largely been a disappointment.

[inxs88]

[Pies4shaw]

[Pies4shaw]

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

[Woods Of Ypres]

Most of our best players come from other clubs! A sad reflection on our drafting choices. Hine needs to go

[Dark Beanie]

[Dave The Man]

[derkd]

[MarkOSuv]

Last night we had.

Mayne.
Howe.
Hoskin-Elliot.
White.
Treloar.
Schade.
Crisp.
Adams.
Aish.

All recruited from other teams.

9 of the 22.

Moore was the only Top 10 pick since 12' in the side.

Melbourne had 5 last week.