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NBN - Good or Bad

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:32 pm
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David wrote:
Gotta say our NBN connection isn't a significant improvement at all over our previous ADSL. Haven't even noticed a difference in load times or streaming; torrents are downloading at about 1.2 times the previous rate and uploads are still a non-starter.


NBN = Fraudband.

They are Just Pissing Money down the Toliet pretty much

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:18 am
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The NBN under the LNP is a failure. It's quite embarrassing how they have sent us backwards. "The speed of complaints is faster than than any internet speed increase".

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/four-corners/NC1704H037S00#playing

I can access the NBN now but they want me to pay more for less as I am currently on Telstra ultra cable. I have around 15 months before I have to switch.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:09 am
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I was pretty astonished by Turnbulls audacity in blaming Labor for the failure of the NBN when were stuck with his sabotaged and much slower version.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-23/nbn-malcolm-turnbull-labor-to-blame-for-calamitous-train-wreck/9076324?pfmredir=sm

The whole point of the NBN was that it was supposed to be an investment for the future, delivering extraordinarily fast speeds with FTTP connection. Turnbull and Abbott said that nobody would need such fast speeds and that FTTN would be sufficient. Now that it turns out it isnt, its all Labors fault. Funny, that...

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:44 am
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^ I cant pretend to be au fait with the technical details, but the damning analogy that FTTN is like taking a bulet train to the station and then a horse and cart to your house makes intuitive sense. I think Turnbull may well be highly culpable here, and I cannot see how he can blame Labour when it was defined and implemented on his watch. Again, politics trumps truth. How we depoliticise significant matters of public interest seems one of the greatest challenges of our era. Perhaps the world is simply becoming too complicated for the model of democracy we inherited from the early 20C.
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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 am
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What you said was too complicated for me. Would you like to be able to see it?
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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:49 pm
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Surely no one is buying the bullshit Turnbull is dishing out.

The original Labor NBA is exactly what all the experts in the field said was the way to go.

Yes it would have cost a bloody fortune but it would future proof the system and not have delivered the sub standard network now being built.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:38 pm
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Interesting that the NBN co is now trying to argue for penalising the phone companies for the new technology that's coming with mobile broadband.

Cue tannin to try to explain to me again why it won't work.

This whole NBN thing is a clustercluck of epic proportions. Krudd's original technology solution was the best technically but the business case as I understand it was way flawed. Politics has managed to utterly frag this from the point of conception.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:37 pm
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Yep, NBN Co is going to get reamed as technology overtakes the Government mandated monopoly. Penalise other telcos and Australia suddenly becomes very dangerous to do business in.
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Piethagoras' Theorem Taurus

the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk


Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: is where I'm at

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:38 pm
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Moving house in 4 weeks time and going from cable to adsl2, that's gonna suck! Apparently getting fttc (fibre to the curb) next year which is supposed to be better than fttn but I'm not sure it'll be any better than the super fast cable I'm currently on?
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:13 am
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The NBN bosses have been awarded over $109 million in bonuses. Amazing, you fail to meet targets and get a bonus. Shocked

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nbn-boss-bill-morrow-flags-faster-nbn-plans-by-christmas-20171024-gz7il2.html

NBN chief Bill Morrow signalled the broadband network will announce a new pricing deal by Christmas that will offer Australians faster speeds at more competitive prices. Didn't we just hear that it's costing to much? Amazing how they can now make it cheaper.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:28 pm
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Culprit wrote:
The NBN bosses have been awarded over $109 million in bonuses. Amazing, you fail to meet targets and get a bonus. Shocked

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/nbn-boss-bill-morrow-flags-faster-nbn-plans-by-christmas-20171024-gz7il2.html

NBN chief Bill Morrow signalled the broadband network will announce a new pricing deal by Christmas that will offer Australians faster speeds at more competitive prices. Didn't we just hear that it's costing to much? Amazing how they can now make it cheaper.


Looks like further bonuses are on the way:

Ipsos Global Advisor survey finds Australia ranks lowest for broadband satisfaction

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ipsos-global-advisor-survey-finds-australia-ranks-lowest-for-broadband-satisfaction-20171024-gz7ibi.html[/i]

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:24 pm
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Interesting perspective I read today.

Quote:
EVERYBODY thinks they know the problem with the NBN: The government decided not to build a nice network of fibre to every home, and instead decided to build a whole lot of nodes. Many of us can only get NBN over copper or cable.
Its all true. But the problems dont end there. It goes much deeper.
Even if we fixed the hardware problem and ran beautiful glass fibres capable of a gleaming gigabit per second to everyone, wed still be stuck.
PROMISES, PROMISES.
You buy your NBN connection from a retailer. They have to pay NBN Co for maximum usage. So do they buy enough access for peak times?
Why would they? They can offer you a package with an advertised speed of 100 megabits per second, but they dont have to guarantee they can deliver it all day. If they buy less access their customers may be unhappy at peak times, but they save money.
The price telcos pay NBN Co for usage is called a CVC charge. It determines the choke point that the retailer faces.
If the retailers pay a high CVC charge per customer their choke point is slack and generous. All their customers can run Netflix at night. But if they pay a small CVC charge per customer the choke point in the network is tight and we spend half the night buffering.
Too many of us are wanting to binge on Netflix shows like The Crown, and the NBN cant cope.
Unfortunately, there is very little public information on how much CVC charge each retailer pays per customer, and so no way of comparing them all on this. A spokesperson for Communication Minister Mitch Fifield said the government was putting the ACCC to work to make sure customers werent getting ripped off.
The purchase of CVC is a commercial decision for retailers but the ACCC broadband performance monitoring will show how fast each major retailers internet service is by measuring actual data speeds in around 4000 homes, the spokesperson said.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/nbns-constipation-problems-go-much-deeper-than-a-lack-of-fibre/news-story/b82532222d97fa2fb338dbd23d437f50

Good read and very correct (if you read the whole thing) from what I understand.

There's an underlying technology issue but also a pure economic overlay.

Boiled down, my 2 cent summary:

Unlike Telstra who own their own network and charge what they like, the NBN is an infrastructure company. They own the network and sell space wholesale to retailers who re-sell it to customers.
The NBN was set up to make a profit, so charges accordingly.
Retailers also want to make a profit. In a competitive market, their margin is not much.
Retailers aren't buying enough bandwidth because it would reduce their margin too much, so people get throttled connections.

IMHO, the whole business model needs throwing out and start from scratch, reviewing the technology model along the way.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:11 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Interesting perspective I read today.

Quote:
EVERYBODY thinks they know the problem with the NBN: The government decided not to build a nice network of fibre to every home, and instead decided to build a whole lot of nodes. Many of us can only get NBN over copper or cable.
Its all true. But the problems dont end there. It goes much deeper.
Even if we fixed the hardware problem and ran beautiful glass fibres capable of a gleaming gigabit per second to everyone, wed still be stuck.
PROMISES, PROMISES.
You buy your NBN connection from a retailer. They have to pay NBN Co for maximum usage. So do they buy enough access for peak times?
Why would they? They can offer you a package with an advertised speed of 100 megabits per second, but they dont have to guarantee they can deliver it all day. If they buy less access their customers may be unhappy at peak times, but they save money.
The price telcos pay NBN Co for usage is called a CVC charge. It determines the choke point that the retailer faces.
If the retailers pay a high CVC charge per customer their choke point is slack and generous. All their customers can run Netflix at night. But if they pay a small CVC charge per customer the choke point in the network is tight and we spend half the night buffering.
Too many of us are wanting to binge on Netflix shows like The Crown, and the NBN cant cope.
Unfortunately, there is very little public information on how much CVC charge each retailer pays per customer, and so no way of comparing them all on this. A spokesperson for Communication Minister Mitch Fifield said the government was putting the ACCC to work to make sure customers werent getting ripped off.
The purchase of CVC is a commercial decision for retailers but the ACCC broadband performance monitoring will show how fast each major retailers internet service is by measuring actual data speeds in around 4000 homes, the spokesperson said.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/nbns-constipation-problems-go-much-deeper-than-a-lack-of-fibre/news-story/b82532222d97fa2fb338dbd23d437f50

Good read and very correct (if you read the whole thing) from what I understand.

There's an underlying technology issue but also a pure economic overlay.

Boiled down, my 2 cent summary:

Unlike Telstra who own their own network and charge what they like, the NBN is an infrastructure company. They own the network and sell space wholesale to retailers who re-sell it to customers.
The NBN was set up to make a profit, so charges accordingly.
Retailers also want to make a profit. In a competitive market, their margin is not much.
Retailers aren't buying enough bandwidth because it would reduce their margin too much, so people get throttled connections.

IMHO, the whole business model needs throwing out and start from scratch, reviewing the technology model along the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp5lTcCMmw4

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:14 pm
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I believe I have heard that somewhere before.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:49 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

watt price tully wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Interesting perspective I read today.

Quote:
EVERYBODY thinks they know the problem with the NBN: The government decided not to build a nice network of fibre to every home, and instead decided to build a whole lot of nodes. Many of us can only get NBN over copper or cable.
Its all true. But the problems dont end there. It goes much deeper.
Even if we fixed the hardware problem and ran beautiful glass fibres capable of a gleaming gigabit per second to everyone, wed still be stuck.
PROMISES, PROMISES.
You buy your NBN connection from a retailer. They have to pay NBN Co for maximum usage. So do they buy enough access for peak times?
Why would they? They can offer you a package with an advertised speed of 100 megabits per second, but they dont have to guarantee they can deliver it all day. If they buy less access their customers may be unhappy at peak times, but they save money.
The price telcos pay NBN Co for usage is called a CVC charge. It determines the choke point that the retailer faces.
If the retailers pay a high CVC charge per customer their choke point is slack and generous. All their customers can run Netflix at night. But if they pay a small CVC charge per customer the choke point in the network is tight and we spend half the night buffering.
Too many of us are wanting to binge on Netflix shows like The Crown, and the NBN cant cope.
Unfortunately, there is very little public information on how much CVC charge each retailer pays per customer, and so no way of comparing them all on this. A spokesperson for Communication Minister Mitch Fifield said the government was putting the ACCC to work to make sure customers werent getting ripped off.
The purchase of CVC is a commercial decision for retailers but the ACCC broadband performance monitoring will show how fast each major retailers internet service is by measuring actual data speeds in around 4000 homes, the spokesperson said.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/nbns-constipation-problems-go-much-deeper-than-a-lack-of-fibre/news-story/b82532222d97fa2fb338dbd23d437f50

Good read and very correct (if you read the whole thing) from what I understand.

There's an underlying technology issue but also a pure economic overlay.

Boiled down, my 2 cent summary:

Unlike Telstra who own their own network and charge what they like, the NBN is an infrastructure company. They own the network and sell space wholesale to retailers who re-sell it to customers.
The NBN was set up to make a profit, so charges accordingly.
Retailers also want to make a profit. In a competitive market, their margin is not much.
Retailers aren't buying enough bandwidth because it would reduce their margin too much, so people get throttled connections.

IMHO, the whole business model needs throwing out and start from scratch, reviewing the technology model along the way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp5lTcCMmw4


Really?

I have some more in the same vein, we'll see if Scott Adams is right. Wink

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