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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | When all professions are expected to work 7 day shifts and at standard rates (or even time 1/2 ) ok , til then it's just plan wrong |
keep in mind, this is the award rate. it's the base. nearly all professionals are paid under negotiated enterprise agreements. Nurses can sook about their base rates but their penalty rates for anything out of monday to friday daytime are serious. Cops would love them.
My opinion is there is no justifiable reason for Sunday to be a higher rate than Saturday. It's an historic, religious based anachronism. I don't have a problem with paying a penalty for weekend work although I do like the idea of paying a higher base rate across the board and scrapping the penalties, as long as it was a rotating roster arrangement.
If you're a uni student or someone who can't work weekdays and want to work when you can, which is nights and weekends, why should you get more money for those shifts than the people who work days? |
Would you work every Sunday for your normal pay rate?
Retail workers are paid poorly enough, and I know a few who only agreed to work Sundays because the extra money is needed, they don't really want to give up family time.
My kids are lucky, they can live at home as students, not all kids are that lucky, not to mention kids who have to move out because school is too far away.
Bottom line it's still low income earners who are missing out. As for being good for small business, it won't be if they can't get people to work Sundays now.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'm actually a rare leftist who more or less agrees with Turnbull on this � I think weekend rates are soon to be a relic of a past time and that just reflects the way the economy and modern work is going. I know that, as a retail and customer service worker, the concept of a Monday to Friday working week seems very foreign to me. So, even though I benefit from penalty rates and actually need them to get by at the moment, I'm open to the idea of restructuring the system to make it more flexible for everyone.
But I only support cutting penalty rates if workers are compensated with an equal wage increase to make up for it. Otherwise the wage gap only grows and businesses can get away with making more profits that should have been going into employee wages.
By the way, I'm on an EBA too so this doesn't immediately affect me � but I have no doubt that it will be a point of negotiation next time around, and that we may have to give some ground.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | I'm actually a rare leftist who more or less agrees with Turnbull on this � I think weekend rates are soon to be a relic of a past time and that just reflects the way the economy and modern work is going. I know that, as a retail and customer service worker, the concept of a Monday to Friday working week seems very foreign to me. So, even though I benefit from penalty rates and actually need them to get by at the moment, I'm open to the idea of restructuring the system to make it more flexible for everyone.
But I only support cutting penalty rates if workers are compensated with an equal wage increase to make up for it. Otherwise the wage gap only grows and businesses can get away with making more profits that should have been going into employee wages.
By the way, I'm on an EBA too so this doesn't immediately affect me � but I have no doubt that it will be a point of negotiation next time around, and that we may have to give some ground. |
Hopefully now you've finished your degree (well done on that again) you will find a job where it won't be a problem for you.
I still remember when Friday night shopping wasn't a thing, and everything closed at noon on Saturday until Monday morning. I'm not sure 24hour a day hustle and bustle is progress. Sunday might have been rest day because of religion, but it was also family day. Do we really need to grind it down further?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I like Sunday because I can work quietly without interruption. I'm thinking about this penalty-rate concept carefully, though, with a view to adopting it. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: |
Would you work every Sunday for your normal pay rate?. |
When I do need to do work on weekends, I don't get paid for it. At all.
But that's a different situation to retail workers
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | think positive wrote: |
Would you work every Sunday for your normal pay rate?. |
When I do need to do work on weekends, I don't get paid for it. At all.
But that's a different situation to retail workers |
yes but your pay rate allows for that, as does ours. when your talking $20 a hour, and losing $10 an hour on sundays, and often they are only 3-4 hour shifts, its a whole new ball game.
like i said, its not us, you, lawyers, doctors, cops etc affected, its low income workers, students, single parents, the retired dudes on the gate at kmart earning a little extra, this is who is getting hurt by this.
no, cops dont get anywhere near enough, also a story for another day, the discrepancy in the world of payday is ludicrous, it all needs flipping, start with sports stars and actors and work your way across! cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Spare a thought for exploited lawyers. Servicing the Lambo isn't cheap. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Spare a thought for exploited lawyers. Servicing the Lambo isn't cheap. |
oh my god i had you in there! i had a personal antidote in there, and cut it out as the post was too long, and i had you in there!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
ps, you might let the ram service the lamb, but wait for her to grow up first!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Remember again that the reason penalty rates for Sundays were higher than Saturday are rooted from the time the only thing open on Sunday was the church.
Reasonable article. couple of selected quotes.
| Quote: | | Employment law expert Professor Andrew Stewart from the University of Adelaide said the Fair Work Commission needed to consider whether Sunday was still "different" to Saturday and demanded a higher penalty rate. |
| Quote: | | In deciding to reduce Sunday penalty rates for retail and hospitality industries, the commission found working on Sunday was more adverse to workers than Saturday. But "much less than in times gone past". |
http://www.theage.com.au/business/penalty-rates-kick-farewell-to-sunday-the-day-of-rest-20170224-gukh2l.html
What's also interesting is that. depending on who you read, the only person who wasn't involved in this was Turnbull.
Shorten apparently when he was employee relations minister put penalties amongst other things on a 4 year review cycle with the commission.
Abbott as PM commissioned a productivity review by the commission without specifically targeting penalties.
All very murky but there's lots of finger pointing going on. We all know Shorten couldn't lie straight in bed but that doesn't mean he's the only one.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Spare a thought for exploited lawyers. Servicing the Lambo isn't cheap. |
oh my god i had you in there! i had a personal antidote in there, and cut it out as the post was too long, and i had you in there!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
ps, you might let the ram service the lamb, but wait for her to grow up first!! |
Better luck next time, TP! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | Remember again that the reason penalty rates for Sundays were higher than Saturday are rooted from the time the only thing open on Sunday was the church.
Reasonable article. couple of selected quotes.
| Quote: | | Employment law expert Professor Andrew Stewart from the University of Adelaide said the Fair Work Commission needed to consider whether Sunday was still "different" to Saturday and demanded a higher penalty rate. |
| Quote: | | In deciding to reduce Sunday penalty rates for retail and hospitality industries, the commission found working on Sunday was more adverse to workers than Saturday. But "much less than in times gone past". |
http://www.theage.com.au/business/penalty-rates-kick-farewell-to-sunday-the-day-of-rest-20170224-gukh2l.html
What's also interesting is that. depending on who you read, the only person who wasn't involved in this was Turnbull.
Shorten apparently when he was employee relations minister put penalties amongst other things on a 4 year review cycle with the commission.
Abbott as PM commissioned a productivity review by the commission without specifically targeting penalties.
All very murky but there's lots of finger pointing going on. We all know Shorten couldn't lie straight in bed but that doesn't mean he's the only one. |
The world is a much-changed place. Once, in the dim, dark past, there were retail emporiums to which, eg, married women went during the week while their husbands worked. Those shops all shut at 5.30 pm and everyone went home and had tea (dinner) as a family. Now, most people of working age work and there is much less demand for retail service during normal working hours. I think it's reasonable to expect that, over time, the impediments to retailers being able to open profitably at a time when people might actually want to purchase things from them will gradually be removed. It's not that long ago that Sunday trading was actually illegal. Now, I don't think most of us could imagine not being able to buy groceries, CDs, books, computers etc from 1 pm Saturday until Monday morning.
The way I view these things is that I expect that employers will be compelled to pay people reasonable wages but not that they will be compelled to pay half as much again (or whatever) merely for the convenience of being able to offer their products or services during times when people might want to turn up to buy them. So, if the hourly amount people are ordinarily paid for retail work between 10 am and 5 pm weekdays isn't enough, that should definitely be increased. But, if it is enough, I don't see much merit in people being paid dramatically more for doing the same thing on a "less convenient" day. It isn't shift work - they're not being asked to work 9 pm to 7 am. I suppose there are also issues like Childcare to be dealt with and allowances should be made to compensate people for actual increases (if there are any) in their work-related costs. But a lot of things are actually cheaper on a Sunday - so I'd require some persuasion about that. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Skids wrote: | You should get paid the same on every day that ends in Y.
What's the difference? |
I was looking for One Nation Supporters to hit this thread 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Firstly this is not linear: that is, there will always be some anomalies but the bottom line is that this is simply hitting the less well off & those who can ill afford it while those who can afford to pay will be getting tax cuts in the future & in this scenario keep either the 25%, the 14% etc.
If anyone truly believes there is no difference between a weekday & weekend then book an appointment with me: I deal with a lot of deluded people a lot of my working time.
Thin end of the wedge basically.
Having said that my daughters boyfriend set up a hamburger pop up a few years ago which has increased in size & to start it up he was working almost all weekends. That was part of the deal. However the business is growing with two places (Brunswick & CBD) that he is able to employ others while still working some of the Sundays. He basically works most days of the week which he expects to have to do to make it successful. He employs 5 workers now which is going to grow - now he'll pocket the dosh but he is looking at expanding his business in the food industry where he'll be employing more people.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Lets also keep in mind that there are people for whom it's not practical to work during the week. For a family with children and one parent at home, for the other to work during the week means they have to pay daycare, when working evenings and/or weekends means free daycare from the other parent or even other family members.
Students are at school during the week, so if they want to work it's evenings and/or weekends.
As P4S said so eloquently, why really should they be paid more for doing the same work?
WPT, where you work is obviously squirrel ville on weekends and weekend evenings in particular. What about a Nurse in a gen med ward though? Night shift with everyone sleeping, just doing obs and checking in case something goes wrong. Far easier work than the same ward during the weekday, yet they get paid a lot more. And for many, it's a choice as again they don't have to pay daycare as the partner is home with the kids.
Clearly it's not a straight forward argument.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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