Fair Work cut penalty rates on Sundays

[think positive]

[Mugwump]

^ agree, TP, and you are right that the Australian min wage is a little higher than when I last looked. In any event, those who portray the US as hell on earth for ordinary workers might find the reality a little more complex than their certainties allow. In truth, if you are struggling, life is hard almost anywhere.

I do not recognise your observation that unemployment is high in the US. Again, last I looked, it was about 5%, and therefore similar to Australia. In much of Europe, unemployment is mostly north of 10%, presumably as a result of labour rigidity and high employment taxes.

^ Double edit : I had bum information - the US minimum wage is lower than I indicated, in most states - it's nearer $8. You're right on this, David, and I was wrong. It could do with a lift. It's more complicated than you indicated, but you're right that it's better to be at the bottom end in Australia, as long as you do not need to rely on your defence forces. Still, the US is a better country in which to be poor than most on the surface of the globe.

[David]

Appreciate the clarification, thanks � I thought there had to be a pretty significant gap. I was also under the impression that the period one can be on unemployment benefits over there is capped to a little over a year, and of course there's been enough written on the shortcomings of the healthcare system pre-Obama and its ongoing travails.

Is the US still a better place to be poor than Brazil or Liberia? Absolutely! But among OECD nations, I'm under the impression that the US has some of the worst income inequality and highest rates of poverty, while socioeconomic indicators like crime rates and imprisonment paint a grim picture.

I found this an interesting article on the matter:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/01/05/america_s_poor_vs_the_rest_of_the_world.html

[Mugwump]

I think you are right re the unemployment benefits story, but there are various disability loopholes which tend to be used by those who cannot find work after a year. It is interesting to note in the (good) article that you posted how low Australia is down the league table at the 5th percentile.

I am certain that goods in the shops in the US are a lot cheaper - which is not surprising with that wage differential - and housing is also a big difference. I suspect taxes are a lot lower as well, though that varies from state to state and probably by income level, too.

It is still worth noting that the US is an incredibly dynamic economy and no hell-hole for the poor, as it is often portrayed.

[think positive]

I don't think the USA is a hell hole for anyone! I stand corrected on the employment figure. But it's amazing how many have multiple jobs just to keep their head above water. If hubby works at Walmart, that's $320 a week on base wage, I don't know how much they get in the way of family benefits, but Id hate to try and live on that as a traditional two child two parent family,

When you say goods in the USA are cheaper, are you talking everything, or living essentials? As some one who has been 4 times to the mainland and three times to Hawaii with a half empty suitcase, and come back full, I reckon I know a bit about this! Asics, Levi's, Nike are a really good deal, I can get Victoria Secret stuff cheaper on line, even with post because the stores don't stock the best sale deals, I bought a Navman last trip for $84, that equates to about the same as here, anything you buy in forever New is a bargain! The cheapest tickets to see Miami heat at heat stadium was off the charts, can't remember exactly but it was allmost $200 for four of us, and we were in the rafters! Cheap baseball tickets were $33, still more than footy General admittance, and yet I just bought indy500 general tickets for practice/qualifying the Saturday before the race for $20. (250,000 seat stadium sold out three months before the race! )

I love love love the States, and the American people (except in New York, too rude!) but every time I go there I think how lucky we are to be in Australia. Our health system might have faults, but not having insurance won't kill you or break you. Personally I think we have gone a bit backwards on mental health with the closure of proper facilities, but when you see the sheer size of the homelessness problems in certain areas in the States, it blows your mind. So did the poverty in areas just a couple of miles from the White House. No way in hell I was walking around the streets there!

It may be for tips but I find that the majority of service workers are just so much friendlier, more helpful. And far from the brash rude Americans you hear about (you can't judge all Aussies by the bogan tourists in Bali, so don't judge all Americans by the rich white trash you may see travelling abroad) I find them polite to a ridiculous level! Getting on and off a plane, queuing anywhere, it's nice to not have it as an every man for himself thing!

Is there a country in the world where the ruling parties have actually got things morally right? where the politicians don't have access to ridiculous allowances, pensions, perks etc? Where essential companies cannot rip off its customers the way Telstra and power companies can? The world over, things are upside down, the ridiculous pay packets of actors, models, rockstars, sports stars, CEO's who's bonus comes down to profit, and not the welfare of the company and its workers. I'm not much into politics because I find it too depressing, too big to handle. Emotionally too hard.

[Mugwump]

^ nice post, TP. I just think that we are a bit too quick to congratulate ourselves on how successful Australia is, compared to the truly extraordinary, innovative economies like the US. I love Australia (hell, I've spent almost half of my life being the proud Aussie in other peoples' countries), but we live the way we do not because of any particular economic genius, but because we sell the land we live on, either in mineral form or in real estate. We were in big trouble in the early nineties, as I recall, when the China boom took off and saved us. And because nothing is as deceptive as unearned wealth, the sense that that the world (and the Oz gummint) owes us a living is pretty strong in Australia as a result. It'll end with a mighty thud one day, I fear.

[think positive]

[Pies4shaw]

Well, c'mon, TP, I can't buy all of it myself!

[watt price tully]

[Mugwump]

[watt price tully]

[Pies4shaw]

Test them out with "Why not let the workers control the means of production?" first.

[Mugwump]

actually I have not proposed or supporting cutting Sunday rates anywhere in this thread. I'm broadly in favour of keeping them where they are, because they discourage Sunday trading and I'd prefer one day a week to be relatively free of rampant consumerism.

What I have been keen to refute is the strange economic idea that higher wages create demand, or that (ref your recent post) you could "level up" Saturday rates to Sunday levels without any effect on output or employment. There is probably a post as Economics Minister in Venezuela for someone with that thinking.

[watt price tully]

[Mugwump]