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What should or shouldn’t be shown on TV?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:39 pm
Post subject: What should or shouldn’t be shown on TV?Reply with quote

<Split from "The 'Me Too' movement" thread>

Somebody needs to tell this writer that there's a difference between 'relatively rare' and 'not worth talking about'. You don't need to be a rabid MRA to recognise that being falsely accused of rape would be a devastating thing to go through – and that's putting to one side the question of whether a documentary on men who have been reported of rape, falsely or otherwise, is a worthwhile endeavour, because the answer to that is yes, obviously, right?

Human beings are interesting, and there's space to explore a whole range of experience. Getting the 'bad' (or 'possibly bad') people off TV so as not to traumatise sexual assault victims is one of the most spine-chillingly totalitarian suggestions I've heard in a long time.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/11/sex-crimes-accused-tv-r-kelly-louis-theroux-gayle-king-give-a-pass

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Last edited by David on Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:00 pm
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if they want to clear the airways like that, then they also need to remove all the fictional movies, telemovies and serials that glorify rape, and or child sex abuse. far too many are more titillating than horrifying.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:37 pm
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Or, alternatively, we could treat viewers as adults (as the vast majority of consumers of these kinds of programs are) and not try to crack down too strongly on what can be shown (and how).
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:51 pm
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David wrote:
Or, alternatively, we could treat viewers as adults (as the vast majority of consumers of these kinds of programs are) and not try to crack down too strongly on what can be shown (and how).


Oh I agree, but then we have to accept that there will be a certain amount of crime committed by those “adults” who get it so wrong. And that’s fine- unless you are or know the victim.

Do we really need to see rape shown in a way that is not a true representation of the horror that the reality is? I mean I know I can’t talk, I love a good shoot em up bang bang bad boy movie, but then I’m never going to want to pick up a gun.

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K 



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:24 pm
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think positive wrote:
...
Do we really need to see rape shown in a way that is not a true representation of the horror that the reality is? ...

Do we really need to see rape shown in any way, whether realistic or unrealistic, on TV?
Isn't it possible that it is causing harm? (There are endless arguments about whether the depiction of violence, whether realistic or unrealistic, increases violence.)
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:42 am
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You don't need to see anything – you can always switch off (and they have ratings and classification guidelines to help you make that decision).

If, on the other hand, your real question is "do filmmakers ever need to show rape?", then the answer is yes, they absolutely do – because art is not just about depicting things that make us comfortable or uplifted, but also sometimes about depicting life as it is with all its sadness, violence and cruelty. The question of whether something is harmful is important to consider (and in some cases, the harm might be so clear and the benefit of permitting the work so minuscule that we would consider censorship), but I'm sure even the most staunch puritan wouldn't argue that all depictions of rape are harmful. Context obviously matters greatly.

Otherwise, all I can say is, thank god we live in a society in which we're relatively free to depict ideas and phenomena in so many ways. The freedom of a society can often be measured by how restricted its art is.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:25 pm
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its not me im worried about, my mind is not twisted, its the morons and evil dudes that should have been put down at ejaculation that worry me. And i cant control what they choose to watch.

and also note i didnt say dont show it, i said dont glamorise it. big difference.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:51 pm
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I understand that – my response was to K's post immediately previous (i.e. 'Do we really need to see rape shown in any way, whether realistic or unrealistic, on TV?').

As for the effect of these depictions on some of these 'twisted' minds, it's an interesting claim – if they're 'evil dudes' who 'should have been put down at ejaculation', aren't you basically saying that they were predisposed to commit acts like this anyway, regardless of what they see on TV? And even if you think that a film or TV show could be the thing that pushes someone over the edge, wouldn't that be the case for the glamorised depiction of any violent crime? If so, how sanitised does our visual media need to become to truly prevent any possible negative consequences whatsoever?

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:48 pm
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David wrote:
I understand that – my response was to K's post immediately previous (i.e. 'Do we really need to see rape shown in any way, whether realistic or unrealistic, on TV?').

As for the effect of these depictions on some of these 'twisted' minds, it's an interesting claim – if they're 'evil dudes' who 'should have been put down at ejaculation', aren't you basically saying that they were predisposed to commit acts like this anyway, regardless of what they see on TV? And even if you think that a film or TV show could be the thing that pushes someone over the edge, wouldn't that be the case for the glamorised depiction of any violent crime? If so, how sanitised does our visual media need to become to truly prevent any possible negative consequences whatsoever?


oops, sorry, i completely missed it!! im just not with it today, gastro, cold, and to top it off the bloody power went out for hours!

as for the next part i just walked into!! Fair comment! Um, well not so much push them over the edge, as let them think its acceptable behaviour. Funny a friend posted something of facebook yesterday about her kid and i thought, oh great, yes cute, but illegal, potentially dangerous if caught by the owner, and your laughing because hes 9! but is it ok? boys will be boys?? its really not! but then no matter how many times i watch die hard, conair, or under seige (ive lost count on all of them!) I wont ever be picking up a sub machine gun and letting loose.

I watch my eldest playing violent online games and im like GGEEZUS! but i cant see her ever acting anything out. So yes, i guess your right, i do think some people are born bad, and seeing certain images or movies could tip them if they are ready to be tipped. Come to think of it, thats the premise for nearly every episode of Criminal Minds! Another show i cant binge watch, as i worry I might learn too much!! but most episodes its every day people triggered by injury, trauma, hidden mental instability, or just driven to the end of their tether.

i guess the only solution is censorship!! Or perhaps better identification of people at risk, with underlying problems, and i have to admit thats the reason i just dont like ADHD meds, what are they masking/ potential trouble, bad parenting, lazy parenting, or a really warped mind. surely there is a better way.

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K 



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:21 pm
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David wrote:
You don't need to see anything – you can always switch off (and they have ratings and classification guidelines to help you make that decision).

...

That's not the question, though, is it, David? When people worry about violence on television, for example, they are not saying that they personally are "offended" by seeing it; they are worried that other people viewing that violence will be more inclined to violence in real life.


Which, I now see (after writing the above), is basically the same point TP made to you.

think positive wrote:
its not me im worried about, my mind is not twisted, its the morons and evil dudes that should have been put down at ejaculation that worry me. And i cant control what they choose to watch.
...

Perhaps if I keep reading I'll see your (David's) response to TP too.

Okay, I see it...

David (to TP) wrote:
...
And even if you think that a film or TV show could be the thing that pushes someone over the edge, wouldn't that be the case for the glamorised depiction of any violent crime? ...

Yes, it may well be. I don't think glamour is required, either. I already said this in my first post: "There are endless arguments about whether the depiction of violence, whether realistic or unrealistic, increases violence."


You may have seen that Brandon Jack (ex-Swan, brother of K. Jack) wrote something relevant about kids watching porn.
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K 



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:52 pm
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^ Here it is:

Boys, porn and the NRL sex videos: our pathetic race to manhood

https://www.smh.com.au/national/boys-porn-and-the-nrl-sex-videos-our-pathetic-race-to-manhood-20190307-p512dj.html

Jack claims

"Obviously there’s a distinction between videos involving actors in the adult film industry, who are paid to perform, and women who are filmed without their knowledge and against their will, often in violent or demeaning sexual acts. But there’s a certain commonality in the young boys staring at the phone screens concealed in their pencil cases during fifth-period English and the elite athletes who send these videos to their friends to affirm their place in the male hierarchy."
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:57 pm
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K wrote:
That's not the question, though, is it, David? When people worry about violence on television, for example, they are not saying that they personally are "offended" by seeing it; they are worried that other people viewing that violence will be more inclined to violence in real life.


Is that really so, though? I had to catch myself years ago when I had inclinations to support the banning of the so-called "torture porn" genre – you know, Saw, Hostel, The Human Centipede and films of that ilk – which I find repugnant in concept let alone actuality. But the more I thought about it, the more I realised that what was really motivating me was not the fact that these titles have a clear detrimental effect on society (research on that topic has been conflicted for decades and remains far from conclusive), but simply the fact that I just didn't like it; and when it came to forms of art I like or at least can tolerate, such as arthouse films with violent content, films with actual depictions of sex, blasphemous comedy and the like, I was much more inclined to be anti-censorship. So I think one does need to interrogate one's biases, and I thought your wording was telling. Your phrasing – “do we need to see it?” – is a (not necessarily intentional) sleight of hand, in that it transfers the focus from what is permissible to what must be endured (including by those whom we perhaps rather arrogantly consider to be more gullible and impressionable than us).

As I’ve argued several times on here in the past, there’s a big difference between what is, say, available to buy on DVD if a viewer wishes, and, say, what is plastered on a billboard for everyone to see whether they like it or not. That key distinction is the difference between what you originally said and what, I think, might be a legitimate case for strong content regulation.

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K 



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:06 am
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David wrote:
...
As I’ve argued several times on here in the past, there’s a big difference between what is, say, available to buy on DVD if a viewer wishes, and, say, what is plastered on a billboard for everyone to see whether they like it or not. ....

But if this can "tip people over the edge", those who might be tipped over the edge are not going to be filtered out by it being DVD-purchase-only.
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David Libra

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:20 am
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My reference to that concept in my response to TP’s posts isn’t a reflection of my own beliefs – I actually think it’s highly unlikely that a violent film, TV show, song or whatever will ever be anything so significant or isolatable as a tipping point. What these might be are factors, just one among many; and you simply can’t legislate every possible factor in violent crime out of existence, because you really wouldn’t have a great deal left (and who knows? Maybe repression is one of them; ultra-conservative societies with a lot of censorship aren’t exactly known for being crime-free paradises).

A much more constructive idea – and one I’ve long advocated for – is to, rather than find things to ban as a means of solving social problems, think of finding ways to positively counteract their negative effects. So, if inhuman and aggressive porn is harming kids’ sexual development, let’s fund and promote healthy and progressive alternatives. If violent films are leading to nihilistic attitudes that increase the risk of real-life violence, let’s devote more funding to media studies programs that can help kids develop better critical thinking skills. If certain gendered narratives are dominant onscreen, let’s support works that challenge and subvert them. That’s how to build an intelligent, thoughtful society, as opposed to a reactive, fearful one in which people are mollycoddled and treated like idiots by the state.

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Last edited by David on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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K 



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:32 am
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I think it's up to the makers of those extremely violent (or whatever) movies, etc., to show they do no harm, not up to society to show there must be harm. It's not as if this is a wildly improbable worry. Nor does making movies more and more violent improve their artistic qualities.
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