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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:42 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Left and right are such meaningless terms these days. I know I use them too but they really don't work anymore.

IMHO anyone on the outer edge of the social and/or economic spectrum has an immature mind that can't see the bigger picture


I think Left and Right still have meaning, as there are pretty clear herd-beliefs that cluster together.

Whether something is "outer edge" or not is not the test for me ; it's whether someone thinks almost exclusively within factional, or black-and-white terms. Many of the mainstream positions in today's world are very contestable, but people are shocked when they are disputed. And what is "outer edge" today was quite mainstream forty years ago. So being "extreme" on some things (not on everything) can be a sign that someone is very much seeing a bigger picture.

What is depressing is how many people think in dead, absolute unexamined categories ....they have been taught what to think, but not how to think. Examples are things like "taxes are too high", "refugees are welcome", etc, without looking at the real content of an issue. The most interesting people are those whose opinions on matter X are not completely predictable from their position on matter Y, while not being arbitrary either. It's why ordinary people often have more interesting views than intellectuals.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:58 am
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swoop42 wrote:
I was thinking today what has happened to Trumps No.1 supporter Wokko?

I see he hasn't post since December 20th.

I don't suppose he went hunting with David Leyonhjelm and suffered a Dick Cheney type incident?


Having said that you were MIA for some time too.

Are you & Wokko one & the same?

Why is it that none of us have ever seen you & Wokko in the one place at the same time?

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:14 am
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stui magpie wrote:
^

If they did, and it was American coffee, it would have dissolved the paper

There's the explanation I was looking for. Why couldn't you say that the first time? Laughing
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Mountains Magpie 



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:25 am
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stui magpie wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
Perhaps someone on here has asked the question and I've missed it. Anyway, since there were 19 perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks and, of those, 15 were Saudis, 2 were from the UAE, 1 was from Egypt and 1 was from Lebanon, why does Trump's travel ban not target any of those countries at all?


because Trump's order doesn't mention any countries, it refers to the list compiled by the government agencies (under Obama) of the countries that pose a threat. I forget the actual term.

As such, if the list is updated, the order remains current and a new one isn't needed.


Dunno about the other 3 countries but Saudi Arabia and the USA are best bud's y'know. Wink

Edit: We may just find out soon: https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-ballistic-missile-strikes-riyadh-saudi-arabia/

Stui, what do you mean by this?

stui magpie wrote:
IMHO anyone on the outer edge of the social and/or economic spectrum has an immature mind that can't see the bigger picture


MM

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:28 pm
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think positive wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
It is quite possible that Trumpery ("les langues des hommes sont plein de tromperies") will have some surprising successes as it blunders about. It may also crash in flames relatively quickly. But if there are successes, we should remember that success will be incidental and temporary, as it has so often been before. This man is not fit for this office. It will show sooner or later.

Agreed; you're right to caution on this.

Just the promise of mammoth tax cuts, and a retreat to the USD in the midst of global uncertainty caused by Trump, could be enough to mask the chaos for a while.

And, for the record, we ought to be very clear about how good Obama's economy is. All positive indicators, including technical full employment according to many.


What on earth is technical full employment?

It basically means that pretty much everyone employable is employed to the point of creating wage inflation.

When unemployment is high, wages come under deflationary pressure (i.e., it's hard to get a pay rise because there are lots of people looking for jobs!).

But, when the economy is doing well and that unemployed labour is absorbed, wages eventually start to come under inflationary pressure because companies have to compete for workers (i.e., it's a good time to ask for a pay rise!).

Importantly, in the real world, while the economy may want workers, it can't always find people fit for the task. Thus, even though some people might still be unemployed, wages will start rising anyhow.

This point is taken to roughly signal the end of excess labour absorption; i.e., the point of technical full employment.

The problem with the US is that large swathes of the country are economically unemployable. Sane employers want people without strong literacy, numeracy, creative problem-solving ability, computer literacy, socio-cultural awareness, and so on, in addition to basic sanity and reliability.

Some of us have been explaining these facts for years now, warning that the wealth gap and bogan anti-intellectual culture were poisonous forces. However, that fell on deaf ears, and rather than getting up to speed with the world, many instead choose to cling to nonsense from a halfwit like Trump.

AFAICT, most investors as well as the US Fed consider the US economy to be approaching, though not yet at, technical full employment.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:42 pm
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Mountains Magpie wrote:


Stui, what do you mean by this?

stui magpie wrote:
IMHO anyone on the outer edge of the social and/or economic spectrum has an immature mind that can't see the bigger picture


MM


What I mean is, to me, anyone who's views exist on the extreme or outer edges of the Left or Right *having said those terms were meaningless, I know) particularly socially, seem to be totally incapable, unable or unwilling to look at the larger picture. They are blinkered and fixed in what is essentially a philosophical view and steadfast in their own belief that they are correct, inflexible in their thinking and incapable of properly considering a contrary perspective without it triggering cognitive dissonance.

to me, that's an immature mind.

Some will disagree, I'm sure, some may agree.

It's an opinion and, to misquote Grouch Marx, if you don't like them...I have others.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:38 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Mountains Magpie wrote:


Stui, what do you mean by this?

stui magpie wrote:
IMHO anyone on the outer edge of the social and/or economic spectrum has an immature mind that can't see the bigger picture


MM


What I mean is, to me, anyone who's views exist on the extreme or outer edges of the Left or Right *having said those terms were meaningless, I know) particularly socially, seem to be totally incapable, unable or unwilling to look at the larger picture. They are blinkered and fixed in what is essentially a philosophical view and steadfast in their own belief that they are correct, inflexible in their thinking and incapable of properly considering a contrary perspective without it triggering cognitive dissonance.

to me, that's an immature mind.

Some will disagree, I'm sure, some may agree.

It's an opinion and, to misquote Grouch Marx, if you don't like them...I have others.


This assumes that political groupings are linear or part of a continuum.

They're part of a circle more often than not.

(some might say circus)

If only you'd done a BA Stui Razz Wink

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:53 pm
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^

Hah. I did one subject of a grad cert, spent most of the time arguing with the lecturer about my writing style, aced the exam (top of the class) by writing an essay saying the text book they gave us was full of shite, and decided there and then that higher education wasn't for me. Razz

Anyway, I'm an Adjunct professor of Shit Happens from the university of life. Wink

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:14 pm
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pietillidie wrote:
think positive wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
pietillidie wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
It is quite possible that Trumpery ("les langues des hommes sont plein de tromperies") will have some surprising successes as it blunders about. It may also crash in flames relatively quickly. But if there are successes, we should remember that success will be incidental and temporary, as it has so often been before. This man is not fit for this office. It will show sooner or later.

Agreed; you're right to caution on this.

Just the promise of mammoth tax cuts, and a retreat to the USD in the midst of global uncertainty caused by Trump, could be enough to mask the chaos for a while.

And, for the record, we ought to be very clear about how good Obama's economy is. All positive indicators, including technical full employment according to many.


What on earth is technical full employment?

It basically means that pretty much everyone employable is employed to the point of creating wage inflation.

When unemployment is high, wages come under deflationary pressure (i.e., it's hard to get a pay rise because there are lots of people looking for jobs!).

But, when the economy is doing well and that unemployed labour is absorbed, wages eventually start to come under inflationary pressure because companies have to compete for workers (i.e., it's a good time to ask for a pay rise!).

Importantly, in the real world, while the economy may want workers, it can't always find people fit for the task. Thus, even though some people might still be unemployed, wages will start rising anyhow.

This point is taken to roughly signal the end of excess labour absorption; i.e., the point of technical full employment.

The problem with the US is that large swathes of the country are economically unemployable. Sane employers want people without strong literacy, numeracy, creative problem-solving ability, computer literacy, socio-cultural awareness, and so on, in addition to basic sanity and reliability.

Some of us have been explaining these facts for years now, warning that the wealth gap and bogan anti-intellectual culture were poisonous forces. However, that fell on deaf ears, and rather than getting up to speed with the world, many instead choose to cling to nonsense from a halfwit like Trump.

AFAICT, most investors as well as the US Fed consider the US economy to be approaching, though not yet at, technical full employment.


Cheers and thanks for taking the time to explain so thoroughly,

You still in Ireland?

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:28 pm
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watt price tully wrote:
swoop42 wrote:
I was thinking today what has happened to Trumps No.1 supporter Wokko?

I see he hasn't post since December 20th.

I don't suppose he went hunting with David Leyonhjelm and suffered a Dick Cheney type incident?


Having said that you were MIA for some time too.

Are you & Wokko one & the same?

Why is it that none of us have ever seen you & Wokko in the one place at the same time?


We have a different taste in goats.

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Mountains Magpie 



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:49 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Mountains Magpie wrote:


Stui, what do you mean by this?

stui magpie wrote:
IMHO anyone on the outer edge of the social and/or economic spectrum has an immature mind that can't see the bigger picture


MM


What I mean is, to me, anyone who's views exist on the extreme or outer edges of the Left or Right *having said those terms were meaningless, I know) particularly socially, seem to be totally incapable, unable or unwilling to look at the larger picture. They are blinkered and fixed in what is essentially a philosophical view and steadfast in their own belief that they are correct, inflexible in their thinking and incapable of properly considering a contrary perspective without it triggering cognitive dissonance.

to me, that's an immature mind.

Some will disagree, I'm sure, some may agree.

It's an opinion and, to misquote Grouch Marx, if you don't like them...I have others.


Cheers Stui, I tend to agree with you. It's difficult for people like that to be empathic when they're convinced they're right Wink

MM

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:19 pm
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^

Cheers MM.

An intellectual exercise everyone should try every now and then.

When you feel frustrated that you're surrounded by idiots who don't understand what to you is common sense, stop and think for a second, maybe they're the ones who're correct and you're the idiot.

Wink

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:20 pm
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Do you think I should do it differently?
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:22 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

swoop42 wrote:
watt price tully wrote:
swoop42 wrote:
I was thinking today what has happened to Trumps No.1 supporter Wokko?

I see he hasn't post since December 20th.

I don't suppose he went hunting with David Leyonhjelm and suffered a Dick Cheney type incident?


Having said that you were MIA for some time too.

Are you & Wokko one & the same?

Why is it that none of us have ever seen you & Wokko in the one place at the same time?


We have a different taste in goats.


I prefer them curried myself.

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Mountains Magpie 



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:26 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
^

Cheers MM.

An intellectual exercise everyone should try every now and then.

When you feel frustrated that you're surrounded by idiots who don't understand what to you is common sense, stop and think for a second, maybe they're the ones who're correct and you're the idiot.

Wink


Yes, and the opposite is "I used to think it was me. Then I realised it was everybody else'" Wink Laughing

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