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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| swoop42 wrote: | I can promise to bare my arse in public and follow through with it.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea for me or the wider public who are in full view.
How exactly does Trump believe moving the embassy has any actual positive benefit for the people who have to live within that region and fast forward peace talks?
It probably benefits right wing zionist Jews and that's all.
Just like his connections with Putin this just reeks of a decision made for the benefit of brand Trump post his Presidency. |
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/939006911629869056 |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How should I know how Trump believe moving the embassy has a actual positive benefit for the people who have to live that region and peace talks does. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| swoop42 wrote: | Just the typical Trump stunt to try and take focus off the F.B.I. investigation which seemingly is creeping ever so slightly closer to nailing him or a family member over ties to Russian government officials.
Call me a cynic but I'm sure it wont hurt his business dealings either when he leaves office. |
I think you have the wrong end of the stick there. This is all about keeping Pence and the evangelicals on board – one of those pet issues of theirs that nobody else thinks is worth pursuing.
Personally, I’m reluctant to get outraged in any way about this. In realpolitik terms, it’s clearly causing a lot of angst for negligible gain; symbolically, it merely reasserts that the US have no genuine interest in playing an even-handed mediator role. But we knew that already. Once we try to analyse this in terms of anything like fairness or ethics, it gets somewhat more complicated: Jerusalem is already the capital of Israel according to any geography book, and there is plenty of precedent for having a divided/disputed city as a national capital – East Berlin was the capital of East Germany for 45 years, and Nicosia today is half capital of Cyprus, half territory occupied by the Turkish north.
So what’s all the fuss? The real concern here, ultimately, is that Palestinians or other Arabic/Muslim groups will respond with violence. If that transpires, perhaps that (and its enablers and equivocators) is the thing we should be condemning, as opposed to the merely unnecessary and stupid but not inherently harmful symbolic decision to move an embassy.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| swoop42 wrote: | I can promise to bare my arse in public and follow through with it.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea for me or the wider public who are in full view.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | Just the typical Trump stunt to try and take focus off the F.B.I. investigation which seemingly is creeping ever so slightly closer to nailing him or a family member over ties to Russian government officials.
Call me a cynic but I'm sure it wont hurt his business dealings either when he leaves office. |
I think you have the wrong end of the stick there. This is all about keeping Pence and the evangelicals on board – one of those pet issues of theirs that nobody else thinks is worth pursuing.
Personally, I’m reluctant to get outraged in any way about this. In realpolitik terms, it’s clearly causing a lot of angst for negligible gain; symbolically, it merely reasserts that the US have no genuine interest in playing an even-handed mediator role. But we knew that already. Once we try to analyse this in terms of anything like fairness or ethics, it gets somewhat more complicated: Jerusalem is already the capital of Israel according to any geography book, and there is plenty of precedent for having a divided/disputed city as a national capital – East Berlin was the capital of East Germany for 45 years, and Nicosia today is half capital of Cyprus, half territory occupied by the Turkish north.
So what’s all the fuss? The real concern here, ultimately, is that Palestinians or other Arabic/Muslim groups will respond with violence. If that transpires, perhaps that (and its enablers and equivocators) is the thing we should be condemning, as opposed to the merely unnecessary and stupid but not inherently harmful symbolic decision to move an embassy. |
Every time I fear that your brain has been captured by a speak-your-weight Leftist orthodoxy dispenser, you come out with something reasoned and open-minded, like this.
I think there are two points, however : firstly, as I understand it, this makes occupied territories in East Jerusalem part of the “capital of Israel” in US eyes, and therefore it legitimizes (in US eyes) Israeli settlement building there. Secondly, symbolic things matter, and - as you said - this shows that the US has no interest in being a mediator. Since no other nation can do much to end the cycle of violence and oppression, it is a shame to further damage the US’s claim to even handedness and principle for no particular strategic gain.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Trump is a Typical Yank "Loud and Dumb"
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I am Da Man |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Hmmm.... what were other presidents views on this 
Mr Obama told pro-Israel lobby group the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) on June 4, 2008, in his first foreign policy speech after capturing the Democratic nomination the day before:
"Let me be clear. Israel's security is sacrosanct. It is non-negotiable.
"The Palestinians need a state that is contiguous and cohesive, and that allows them to prosper — but any agreement with the Palestinian people must preserve Israel's identity as a Jewish state, with secure, recognised and defensible borders.
"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided. I have no illusions that this will be easy."
In 2000, then Republican candidate George W Bush promised to move the US embassy to Jerusalem
George Bush
He too made the comment to AIPAC:
"Something will happen when I'm president: as soon as I take office I will begin the process of moving the US ambassador to the city Israel has chosen as its capital."
In 1993, former president Bill Clinton also came to office saying he supported 'the principle' of moving the US embassy to Jerusalem
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-07/what-have-past-presidents-said-about-israel-and-jerusalem/9234736
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Trump is a Typical Yank "Loud and Dumb" |
An observation made on all your trips to the states no doubt 
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Wokko wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | I can promise to bare my arse in public and follow through with it.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea for me or the wider public who are in full view.
How exactly does Trump believe moving the embassy has any actual positive benefit for the people who have to live within that region and fast forward peace talks?
It probably benefits right wing zionist Jews and that's all.
Just like his connections with Putin this just reeks of a decision made for the benefit of brand Trump post his Presidency. |
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/939006911629869056 |
Will you please stop posting facts Wokko. 
It upsets the snowflakes fantasy land.
This is one of my favourites..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctz_dHfYfb8
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Of course anyone who a) has any progressive impulses and b) knew anything about economics would see Trump’s tax plan for what it is: a radical and likely disastrous version of the usual Republican cuts-for-the-wealthy, slashed-public-spending agenda. But sure, you can pick out a handful of the more benign or hard to understand policies, slap Bernie Sanders’ name on them and fool a few gullible campus teenagers ... it doesn’t actually prove any point, but if it gives you an easy laugh, enjoy, I guess.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Doesn't prove a point?? ... Other than, the majority of screaming lunatic protesters against Trump have absolutely no idea about anything and are a bunch of sheep.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Who cares about the politics? The was just a stupid thing to do. No doubt there are some conservatives who can read and write (de Tocqueville, for example) and are capable of complex thought. Trump, unfortunately, is not one of them. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Skids wrote: | | Doesn't prove a point?? ... Other than, the majority of screaming lunatic protesters against Trump have absolutely no idea about anything and are a bunch of sheep. |
Where’s the evidence that these are the same people? Any educated leftist, for instance, would likely support ‘death’ taxes (even though for some reason they’re completely taboo in Australia), whereas the people interviewed clearly either had little idea about what they are or hadn’t spent all that much time thinking about them.
Of course, I’m sure if anyone happened to, say, guess his ruse and give an intelligent reply, he totally wouldn’t have left them on the cutting room floor...
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Skids wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | I can promise to bare my arse in public and follow through with it.
Doesn't mean it's a good idea for me or the wider public who are in full view.
How exactly does Trump believe moving the embassy has any actual positive benefit for the people who have to live within that region and fast forward peace talks?
It probably benefits right wing zionist Jews and that's all.
Just like his connections with Putin this just reeks of a decision made for the benefit of brand Trump post his Presidency. |
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/939006911629869056 |
Will you please stop posting facts Wokko.
It upsets the snowflakes fantasy land.
This is one of my favourites..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctz_dHfYfb8 |
The only facts are that the other Presidents in the end were smart enough (even Bush) not to follow through with it as they realised it served no positive purpose for the majority of people living in that region.
Meanwhile still waiting for that wall Trump promised and importantly the Mexican cash to pay for it.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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