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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Wokko wrote: | | This is so true. I could absolutely rip Trump apart on numerous terrible policies and errors of fact and judgement, but all I hear are outrageous claims and spittle flecked lips crying NAZI and RACIST. All that leads to are supporters and neutrals defending him, it creates support from those who may be looking for any reason to vote against him. |
Exactly. The Democrats won't make any progress just being "anti-Trump" and screaming "Russia" and relying on the Stormy Daniels story to save them. If they are to make any progress in the mid-terms and in 2020, they need to go after some of Trump's policy flaws and broken promises.
On the foreign policy front, Trump has increased troop numbers in Afghanistan rather than reduce or withdraw troops from the region and conducted a set of airstrikes on the Assad regime despite using the premise of 'America First' and indicating that the US' involvement in the Middle East had to stop. Some could also criticise him for the decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem which had no practical benefit, and was merely symbolic more than anything else.
Domestically, Trump has made very little progress on building the wall on the southern border and his promise to start rebuild much of the US' infrastructure.
I prefer Trump over any Democrat candidates, but Trump is not without flaws. However, I'm convinced that much of the Democratic establishment and mainstream media are too blinded by the irrational hatred for the man to appeal to a wide range of people outside the leftist echo chamber.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | | Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole. |
Possibly. Broadly speaking, this is the general consensus I get from regular posters on VPT, although I might be wrong on some of these and not everyone takes a left or right position on every issue (whether it's a social or economic).
Left
- David
- Pies4shaw
- Pietillidie
- Culprit
- Watt Price Tully
- Swoop42
- Tannin (hasn't posted in a while)
Right
- Wokko
- Skids
- MJ23
- Stui Magpie (probably centre-right)
- Mugwump (although, not a supporter of Trump)
- Jezza
- Thesoretoothsayer (mainly speaks out against some of the left's idiocy)
From what I can gather, it's pretty balanced. Some posters disappear for a while or only post infrequently and others are very active, which can generate the impression that VPT is dominated by one side of politics over the other.
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole. |
Possibly. Broadly speaking, this is the general consensus I get from regular posters on VPT, although I might be wrong on some of these and not everyone takes a left or right position on every issue (whether it's a social or economic).
Left
- David
- Pies4shaw
- Pietillidie
- Culprit
- Watt Price Tully
- Swoop42
- Tannin (hasn't posted in a while)
Right
- Wokko
- Skids
- MJ23
- Stui Magpie (probably centre-right)
- Mugwump (although, not a supporter of Trump)
- Jezza
- Thesoretoothsayer (mainly speaks out against some of the left's idiocy)
From what I can gather, it's pretty balanced. Some posters disappear for a while or only post infrequently and others are very active, which can generate the impression that VPT is dominated by one side of politics over the other. |
i forget again, which side am i on??
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| think positive wrote: |
i forget again, which side am i on?? |
You seem to me to be a swing voter or centrist. Of course the Trump memorabilia in your house might make you guilty by association  |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole. |
Possibly. Broadly speaking, this is the general consensus I get from regular posters on VPT, although I might be wrong on some of these and not everyone takes a left or right position on every issue (whether it's a social or economic).
Left
- David
- Pies4shaw
- Pietillidie
- Culprit
- Watt Price Tully
- Swoop42
- Tannin (hasn't posted in a while)
Right
- Wokko
- Skids
- MJ23
- Stui Magpie (probably centre-right)
- Mugwump (although, not a supporter of Trump)
- Jezza
- Thesoretoothsayer (mainly speaks out against some of the left's idiocy)
From what I can gather, it's pretty balanced. Some posters disappear for a while or only post infrequently and others are very active, which can generate the impression that VPT is dominated by one side of politics over the other. |
I think that’s about right, Jezza. TP, I’d say you’re a centrist, and K seems reluctant to show his/her cards. You could probably add Pi to the right side, Ronrat to the left (maybe?) and not sure where DTM sits on non-torrenting issues. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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I think TP is a centrist from the discussions we've had together at the footy. In a way, she's the ultimate swing voter.
DTM seems to support Labor with his disdain for the Liberals especially on economic matters, but he believes in the punitive approach (e.g. death penalty) when it comes to dealing with criminals who commit serious indictable offences.
However, DTM's probably best suited to the Pirate Party.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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ultimate swinger! well ok then!!
cheers jezza, you must be sick of my asking you! not to swing guys, which way im leaning!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | think positive wrote: |
i forget again, which side am i on?? |
You seem to me to be a swing voter or centrist. Of course the Trump memorabilia in your house might make you guilty by association |
hehe, not my stuff i can assure you! i have to let hubby decorate just a little bit!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| MJ23 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | By "free from sensationalism", you mean "white-rinsed of the racist anti-Mexican sentiment".
Yes, MJ23 could read the speech - the speech is actually worse than the way his comments were portrayed in Guardian article. Surely even you can work out that when Trump says
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They're sending us not the right people."
it's just racist. "Some, I assume, are good people" is just a different guise for the old "Some of my best friends are Mexican" which we all always understood was a racist apologia.
If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Again by saying they are not sending their "best" means they do have better people. Thats not an entire race attacked. Its not that hard. He is on record for Legal Immigration. To suggest a "Guise" in his thinking is what you want it to be not what it is. You cant know that.
There is precedent with Cuba sending their criminals to the US. Not their "best" element.
But, twist it how you want, use it to label him any category of person you need to suit your view and shoot down any other message from him or is government. Thats working really well for the anti-trump movement atm as you can see in the polling.
Im with you on one thing though, probably no merit in having a conversation with you on the subject. go pies. |
This is the "Some of my best friends are ..." defence that I anticipated in my previous post. It doesn't wash with people like me who read and write and deal with language for a (fabulously lucrative) living.
I agree it isn't that hard. I accept, though, that it appears to be too hard for you.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Ironic. You see what you want to see and your cognitive dissonance wont let you out of your own intellectually flawed mental prison. Brainwashed by the media and spouting left wing slogans like a pussy hat wearing arts student.
Sad. |
Last week I was a "sissy", this week you liken me to a "pussy". And you have the temerity to invoke the language of "cognitive dissonance".
If you don't want to engage, that's fine. But if you do want to, try engaging like you might be a grown up and one day even have a real job. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I will let you know if I do. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Ironic. You see what you want to see and your cognitive dissonance wont let you out of your own intellectually flawed mental prison. Brainwashed by the media and spouting left wing slogans like a pussy hat wearing arts student.
Sad. |
Last week I was a "sissy", this week you liken me to a "pussy". And you have the temerity to invoke the language of "cognitive dissonance".
If you don't want to engage, that's fine. But if you do want to, try engaging like you might be a grown up and one day even have a real job. |
Good that self-proclaimed “fabulously lucrative” living does not depend on being able to distinguish the difference between being likened to a “pussy-hat wearing arts student” and being called a “pussy”.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Go for it, Mugwump, he needs all the help he can get. Obviously. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Well, for what it is worth, I agree with you on this issue. Trump’s language may allow him to technically claim that he is not vilifying a race, but it does inflame some very ugly elements and emboldens them to attack and intimidate some vulnerable people. Even if one agrees with a policy to stem illegal immigration, this type of blanket vilification is destructive and demagogic. It’s just one of a hundred ways that he is a disgrace to his office.
He is not a Nazi, by any means - he lacks Hitler’s demonic organizational skill, talismanic energy, and he appears to lacks any real beliefs at all - but he certainly has the potential to become the US’s first anti-Constitutional President.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: |
Last week I was a "sissy", this week you liken me to a "pussy". And you have the temerity to invoke the language of "cognitive dissonance".
If you don't want to engage, that's fine. But if you do want to, try engaging like you might be a grown up and one day even have a real job. |
I'll let the dig slide because you thought I'd started name calling. Pussy hats are stupid looking pink beanies that when folded up look like a vagina. They're worn by virtue signalling lefties, usually protesters but some seem to like the 24/7 virtue head warmer.
While I wont apologize for the statement (or the banter about your distaste for combat sports) I'm sorry I inadvertently caused offence.
Politics brings out the worst in people, especially when we're sitting at opposite ends of the spectrum. It's not always easy to reach across the aisle. |
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